My question was and still is for Motorvation. When? They have chosen to not answer that.
This thread was started with also a simple question.
In researching the questions, information and private reviews were discovered and the links were provided earlier in this thread and I believe they are pertinent to the thread question and are on line for anyone to see.
We have dealt with loss of events that we had expected to attend in the Fall of 2014. We would like to be able to plan for future Events like the 2015 Rally, but are waiting to find out WHEN we can expect delivery.
It is real simple.
We expected service as offered or at least communication as to delays and an honest estimate of delivery.
It is real simple
96flgeez, have you considered that the whole delay might be beyond Motorvation's control? Give you an example...
Back I'm July I ordered a new ham radio transceiver from Ten-Tec, a small manufacturer in Tennessee known for the quality and performance of their radios. Ten-Tec had just merged with another small manufacturer that specialized in RF amplifiers, and they decided that their price for some of their products was too high and uncompetitive, so to test the market they reduced the price on the radio I bought, the "Eagle", by 30% and made a few options standard. They guaranteed the sale price for the month of July, and the sale was a roaring success, producing a 3 month backlog of orders! At the same time they were consolidating the amplifier building operation based in Colorado into the radio building operation in Tennessee, and it wouldn't all fit into the existing building there. So they had to move the whole shop at the same time, thought it was a move of only a block or so into a bigger building in the same industrial park.
So thanks to this avalanche of orders, it took 3 months to get my new radio built and delivered. I was kinda busy when it arrived about a month ago, so didn't use it much until the last week or so that I got to play with it some... Gee, doesn't seem to be receiving anything but white noise? I read through the manual again, check all the controls, and reboot it a couple times... Still not receiving any signals. Damn, after over 4 months, I still can't use this radio? But before I get on my high horse and flame Ten-Tec off the face of the earth, I get on the Yahoo Groups Ten-Tec Eagle e-mail list and read the posts... Turns out that a supplier sent Ten-tec a bunch of bad relays that Ten-Tec is replacing under warranty. Dang, 4 months wait and I have to send the radio back to the factory and wait some more? No, turns out that a couple folks on the Ten-Tec Eagle Yahoo Group have found a workaround, I tried it and I'm listening to the the Midcars net on 7258 Khz right now with S7 signals.
So even a great small manufacturer like Ten-Tec or Motorvation can get tripped up by an unexpected blizzard of orders or a supplier's screwup. And unlike GM who just threatens loss of multi million dollar contracts and gets action, small manufacturers like Ten-Tec and Motorvation have to rely on much larger manufacturers for parts and don't have much bargaining power with them. In fact, a lot of Motorvation's suppliers have consolidated during the last few years and become much less responsive to Motorvation and other small manufacturers. The recovery from the recession hasn't necessarily helped either- While it's nice to have a full order board like Motorvation literally has (they may need to add another (bulletin board or three), all those sidecars and trailers in various degrees of completion mean that Motorvation and similar small manufacturers have to try to borrow capital to buy all the parts to build that full order board of sidecars or widgets. That need for capital is what pushed Beall, a very well regarded small manufacturer of tank and bulk trailers, into bankruptcy- They survived the recession but the outlay to buy parts and materials for the rush of orders that came with the recovery did them in. There is also a shortage of skilled manufacturing labor, especially in the west, as anyone who can weld or machine parts is in high demand now. The Bakken oilfield in North Dakota is directly sucking up these workers, and metropolitan areas like Sioux Falls which is just down the road from Motorvation have become supply bases for the Bakken, and thus have very low unemployment rates in the range of 2-3%. That leaves small manufacturers at a disadvantage in recruiting workers, competing against much bigger companies like Polaris and Mammen Energy that can use their size to obtain better employee benefits than a small business can afford to offer.
So before you go all "consumer activist" and joist with Motorvation or another small business, see what you can do to help. In the case of my Ten-Tec radio, I know they're busy so as long as I found a work around I may wait until they're caught up before I send it in to get the bad relay replaced. Motorvation is in reality a small business run by a handful of workers, and there's no limo or new Gold Wing or custom Harley parked in front of the executive offices. Heck, there ain't no executive offices, just a cramped little room in an old car dealership crammed with desks and files and not much heat, except in the summer. It you see a Gold Wing out front, that's the lead techs, and it's around 30 years old and hooked to a weathered Motorvation sidecar at least as old. So if you want some satisfaction, instead of sullying Motorvation's good reputation all over the internet... Contact them, make peace, and ask if there's anything you can do to speed your order along!
Hi 96flgeez:
You think it should be real simple. And on the surface you are probably right but as geerheadgirlz says there are things going on that the folks at Motorvation are dealing with that don't show on the surface. Maybe they can't give you the simple answer you want because some supplier isn't giving Mary the answer she needs.
I'm with geerheadgirlz. Call and instead of yelling at Mary ask what you can do to help.
jaydmc - 12/3/2014 3:18 PM
I have been emailed by a few people privately wanting me to weigh in on this, I am choosing not to other then to say that GearHeadGrrl is active on other boards, has been around sidecars for quite a while, and in general I have found to be a person of integrity who's experiences with Motovation have been different, I see no need nor reason for any personal attacks. Full disclosure I do need to disclose that she has also purchased items from my company.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
READ HER POST'S, IF SHE'S BEEN AROUND THAT LONG SHE SHOULD KNOW BETTER, I DON'T SEE WHERE THE ORIGINAL POSTER IS A CHRONIC COMPLAINER, ALL HE HAS BEEN ASKING FOR IS A EXPLANATION WHICH THE COMPANY HAS REFUSED TO PROVIDE, EVEN AFTER REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT THEM, IS THAT THE WAY A REPUTABLE COMPANY OPERATES? WOULD YOU EXPECT SOME COMMUNICATION IF IT WERE YOU? IF YOU WERE IN THE MARKET FOR A NEW S/C WOULD THIS EPISODE IN POOR BUSINESS PRACTICES INFLUENCE YOUR DECISION? WELL, IT DID ME AND I SAID SO, IF SOMEONE WHO HAD EXPERIENCED SIMILAR PROBLEMS WOULD HAVE POSTED THAT INFO, WOULD IT HAVE AFFECTED 96FLGEEX'S DECISION, MAYBE OR NOT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK HIM, IT DAMN SURE AFFECTED MY DECISION AS I DELETED THEM AS POSSIBLE SOURCES FOR MY NEW S/C, THEY WERE UNDER SERIOUS CONSIDERATION UNTIL I READ THIS AND CONTACTED THEM TO ASK ABOUT A DELIVERY DATE, THIS WAS DONE AFTER MY CONTACT WITH THEM ON THE PHONE AND BY A SALES INFO PACKET THEY SENT ME.
JAY, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND HAVE TALKED TO YOU ON THE PHONE, I THINK I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT YA TO RECOMMEND YOU AS A INSTALLER TO A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS ABOUT TO PURCHASE HER FIRST RIG, MATTER OF FACT YOU AGREED TO PICK HER UP AT THE BREMERTON FERRY WHEN SHE VISIT'S HER BROTHER IN JANUARY.
ONE LAST QUESTION JAY, DO YOU RETURN E-MAILS AND PHONE CALLS FROM CUSTOMERS? IF NOT, PLEASE GIVE ME A LEGITIMATE REASON AS TO WHY NOT.
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER, I MADE MY APOLOGIES TO 96FLGEEZ AND TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS GREAT FORUM, I CAN NO LONGER SEE WHAT SHE WRITES AS SHE IS THE 0NLY PERSON ON MY IGNORE LIST.
THANKS AND HAVE A GREAT DAY
jwshort - 12/3/2014 5:41 PM
I just have to weigh in on this topic. I have done business with Mary at Motorvation. She is honest and hard working - but don't expect fast service. They have other people to take care of beside you.
I bought a used Formula and delivered it to their factory for installation on a K1100 BMW which they picked up for me at the dealer in Sioux City, IA. I didn't have to deliver it to them. I don't think I remember having to pay anything extra for the service. It did take more time than I expected and so I called Mary and asked what the delay was. The answer was "The color of your sidecar body matched my Harley (Mary's bike) so we built you a new body and are painting to match your BMW." I have had to have various parts since - as I still have the rig that they put together for me. I have been treated well by the folks at Motorvation. They don't respond to emails but if you call bring your lunch because Mary loves to visit.
I'm am not sure I have addressed the issue that seems to be the point of pain here but I think there is a lot of "Jumping to Conclusions" going on here. Don't go on line a bad mouth someone unless you have all your facts. You may be subject to libel by the victim.
WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THEIR FAILURE TO EXPLAIN THINGS OR AT LEAST RETURN THE CUSTOMERS PHONE CALL AND I DON'T SEE WHERE THE POSTER IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS OR BAD MOUTHING ANYONE, I THINK HE OUTLINED THE PROBLEMS HE IS HAVING CORRECTLY AND MORE PEOPLE SHOULD RELAY BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE, IT CAN SAVE FELLOW RIDERS A LOT OF GRIEF, I KNOW IT DID ME
As you asked. It is our policy to always answer our phone's during business hours. If you get the machine it is as we only have 4 lines and all 4 are full at which point it goes to the machine. Emails directly to me at jay@dmcsidecars.com I try and answer at least every hour if not sooner except when I am on holiday in early September at which point they are only answered daily. If I happen to stop by the shop on the weekends I also check emails and answer phone despite being closed. While our hours are from 8-4:30 west coast time I usually am answering calls by 7:00 AM in order to help my customers in other time zones. My office manger stays until 5:30 to answer phones. My feeling is that we only get once chance to make a first impression and a persons initial contact with us is usually either via phone or email. I also spend countless hours on the phone and email trying to support buyers of competitors sidecars and used sidecars. There are two major sidecar manufacture's that for one I help with the very technical stuff and the other any calls to them for technical support they tell their customers to phone me.
I have also tried to support the hobby, My wife and I ran a sidecar camp out for 9 years. I have served on the board of the USCA and my wife and I hosted the national rally once. I also try and support training. I was the first assistant instructor ever of the S/Tep program, When David Hough was developing the class, some one needed to be an assistant. I volunteered, I was certified as an instructor at the first instructor certification class for which I was also the assistant instructor. When starting a program from scratch, some one has to designate them self the chief instructor (David Hough) and then figure out how to certify instructors going forward. My wife was one of the first women to become and instructor and also serves on the advisory board at the Evergreen Safety council http://evergreenmotorcycletraining.org/ which over seas training for all of the country. We both taught the class for a few years until there was enough other instructors that we were no longer needed in order to insure that there would be an instructor for every needed class. When the book "Driving a sidecar outfit" by David Hough (also known as the "yellow" book) was being up dated for the second edition my wife and I were there for the photo shots showing off road riding on one of our Enduro sidecars attached to a KLR.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Dear Moonlite:
I'm sorry you missed my point. I was defending the character of a friend who has treated me well - if not timely. Having said that - read my second post. Until you have walked in her shoes, your complaints are mere supposition. There is likely a good reason why Mary can't set a delivery date (note GearheadGrrrl's post).
Dear Everyone else who has an opinion on this topic:
NOW it is time to put this topic to rest. It is not productive. It isn't speeding the delivery of the product. It is only demeaning the character of an honest, hardworking business person who is one of us. We don't have very many people who build sidecars. Let's not try to put this one out of business.
Boy, I agree completely with jwshort. We have too few sidecar manufacturers all ready. Up until this particular issue, I've heard nothing but praise for Motorvation. I have spoken with them on the phone and found them to be very helpful with my questions. When I left a message, I was called back the same day. There's an old saying: Don't complain about another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. I've been frustrated with similar issues, both motorcycle and non-motorcycle. Somehow, when I hear my mother's voice reminding me not to complain until I've walked in their shoes the entire issue becomes much less frustrating. There's one thing that perhaps we can all learn from this. Quite simply, it is this: the most important word in the English language is "communication". What we have here is a breakdown in communication. Rather than "rag" on a motorcycle sidecar manufacturer any longer, let's try to at least learn how important communication is.
Whew! I'm sure hearing a lot of impatient "table pounding" over having to wait for something that is a luxury! I just got an email from Mary the other day apologizing for not replying sooner, but that they have recently made some player changes in the shop to provide better paint and fiberglass quality. It's going to take a bit of time to get things back up to speed.
I bought my Spyder from Jim Sontag, personally, back in 1982 when they were still in California. He spent nearly an hour with us to be sure my wife would be comfortable in a car and even took her for a ride to see if it would hurt her back. I sold that car a long time ago (regretfully!), but when I started looking into getting another one recently I learned that we lost Jim a short time ago. I'm sure you can imagine how hard it must be for Mary to pick up the reins and drive on! Maybe communications is suffering so the quality can be kept on top.
Each sidecar manufacturer is unique in what it offers, and for those threatening to look elsewhere, then, GO! But, you won't get anything even close to a Motorvation car! Just the fact that they were your first choice says that you will be settling for something less just because you can't get it NOW. You want an instant response to your communications? Then they COULD hire someone to do that, then tack on the added expense to your new car! Like GearheadGrrrl suggested, go visit the factory and see what is happening.
Just place your orders and go have a cup of joe and be patient! There are some things that just can't be rushed. Also, don't be making plans for something you haven't already ordered and expect the maker to meet your schedule!
Like GearheadGrrrl said, I'm not a shill for Motorvation, but just a past, very satisfied customer hearing a lot of uninformed, impatient table-pounding!
NO ANSWERS YET? WAITING FOR A REASONABLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THE CO WILL NOT COMMUNICATE WITH CUSTOMERS,
jaydmc - 12/4/2014 12:14 PM
As you asked. It is our policy to always answer our phone's during business hours. If you get the machine it is as we only have 4 lines and all 4 are full at which point it goes to the machine. Emails directly to me at jay@dmcsidecars.com I try and answer at least every hour if not sooner except when I am on holiday in early September at which point they are only answered daily. If I happen to stop by the shop on the weekends I also check emails and answer phone despite being closed. While our hours are from 8-4:30 west coast time I usually am answering calls by 7:00 AM in order to help my customers in other time zones. My office manger stays until 5:30 to answer phones. My feeling is that we only get once chance to make a first impression and a persons initial contact with us is usually either via phone or email. I also spend countless hours on the phone and email trying to support buyers of competitors sidecars and used sidecars. There are two major sidecar manufacture's that for one I help with the very technical stuff and the other any calls to them for technical support they tell their customers to phone me.
I have also tried to support the hobby, My wife and I ran a sidecar camp out for 9 years. I have served on the board of the USCA and my wife and I hosted the national rally once. I also try and support training. I was the first assistant instructor ever of the S/Tep program, When David Hough was developing the class, some one needed to be an assistant. I volunteered, I was certified as an instructor at the first instructor certification class for which I was also the assistant instructor. When starting a program from scratch, some one has to designate them self the chief instructor (David Hough) and then figure out how to certify instructors going forward. My wife was one of the first women to become and instructor and also serves on the advisory board at the Evergreen Safety council http://evergreenmotorcycletraining.org/ which over seas training for all of the country. We both taught the class for a few years until there was enough other instructors that we were no longer needed in order to insure that there would be an instructor for every needed class. When the book "Driving a sidecar outfit" by David Hough (also known as the "yellow" book) was being up dated for the second edition my wife and I were there for the photo shots showing off road riding on one of our Enduro sidecars attached to a KLR.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
THANK YOU BUT I ALREADY KNEW THAT, THAT'S WHY I RECOMMENDED YA
trikebldr - 12/5/2014 10:58 AM
Whew! I'm sure hearing a lot of impatient "table pounding" over having to wait for something that is a luxury! I just got an email from Mary the other day apologizing for not replying sooner, but that they have recently made some player changes in the shop to provide better paint and fiberglass quality. It's going to take a bit of time to get things back up to speed.
I bought my Spyder from Jim Sontag, personally, back in 1982 when they were still in California. He spent nearly an hour with us to be sure my wife would be comfortable in a car and even took her for a ride to see if it would hurt her back. I sold that car a long time ago (regretfully!), but when I started looking into getting another one recently I learned that we lost Jim a short time ago. I'm sure you can imagine how hard it must be for Mary to pick up the reins and drive on! Maybe communications is suffering so the quality can be kept on top.
Each sidecar manufacturer is unique in what it offers, and for those threatening to look elsewhere, then, GO! But, you won't get anything even close to a Motorvation car! Just the fact that they were your first choice says that you will be settling for something less just because you can't get it NOW. You want an instant response to your communications? Then they COULD hire someone to do that, then tack on the added expense to your new car! Like GearheadGrrrl suggested, go visit the factory and see what is happening.
Just place your orders and go have a cup of joe and be patient! There are some things that just can't be rushed. Also, don't be making plans for something you haven't already ordered and expect the maker to meet your schedule!
Like GearheadGrrrl said, I'm not a shill for Motorvation, but just a past, very satisfied customer hearing a lot of uninformed, impatient table-pounding!
This is the most mature response to all this yet. Yes, it is frustrating to not get a response from anyone, but to take this to the point of venting on more than one forum and having pointless long winded responses by someone out of the blue is disappointing for me as a new member here. Perhaps I am expecting too much by looking for civility. BTW, posting in all caps is considered to be rude.
IndSlim - 12/5/2014 12:56 PM
trikebldr - 12/5/2014 10:58 AM
Whew! .....over having to wait for something that is a luxury! I just got an email from Mary the other day apologizing for not replying sooner, but that they have recently made some player changes in the shop to provide better paint and fiberglass quality. It's going to take a bit of time to get things back up to speed. Like GearheadGrrrl said, I'm not a shill for Motorvation, but just a past, very satisfied customer hearing a lot of uninformed, impatient table-pounding!
Nearly two months since my last question. "What's going on?" November 22. 2014
Good to hear that the vendor is responding to good friends.
Now Jan 17, 2015, and I notice they have removed all my posts from FB, including my post about the deposit on 05 APR 2014.
Make your own decisions.
Just want to know, Motorvation. Respond Please.
GearheadGrrrl - 12/2/2014 10:14 PM
Moonlite, you and your son missed out on the opportunity to acquire one of the best sidecars made. I've seen them spend half an hour on the phone helping someone who's bought one of their sidecars 2nd, 3rd, or xxx hand, even though they didn't make a cent on the deal. Compare that to companies now that refuse to support anything over a couple years old and charge for just advice. ...
So while a couple of you are whining about a couple months delay in getting your new sidecars, Motorvation's been taking good care of the rest of their customers for decades... Sounds like Motorvation's been keeping most all their customers satisfied, 'cept for a couple chronic complainers!
Couple of months.... ? Near two months from a Year. You have seen them spend time on customers ???
New email sent to Motorvation. Just "what's going on?"
C'mon. say more about my sleeping habits.
#wannabe a happy owner
jwshort - 12/4/2014 11:28 AM
Hi 96flgeez:
You think it should be real simple. And on the surface you are probably right but as geerheadgirlz says there are things going on that the folks at Motorvation are dealing with that don't show on the surface. Maybe they can't give you the simple answer you want because some supplier isn't giving Mary the answer she needs.
I'm with geerheadgirlz. Call and instead of yelling at Mary ask what you can do to help.
2 more months....
C'mom Hope to see you in Sturgis 2015.. With or without. Their choice.
