Is there such a thing as a starter sidecar rig?

Crilly - 10/9/2014 8:42 PM
... My conclusion is there is no starter rig. You have to learn to ride them safely each time you ride them....

Very true. Whereas a smaller cc/lightweight motorcycle is generally a good starter/learner for 2-wheels, such is not necessarily the situation with sidecar rigs. For example, the "little" MZ Silverstar Gespann imported back in the '90's would appear to be a good "starter rig" due to its smaller dimensions:

However, the Silverstar requires the full compliment of sidecar operating skills to safely operate at anything more than a sedate pace. The driving dynamics of the wider/heavier touring rigs are quite different; similar, but different. And changing load/ballast in the sidecar affects push/pull/lift different on every rig.

Great info from all! My initial impression is that I like the concept of the Ural type with 2 wheel drive available. The do anything, rugged type is appealing. My reading of issues and fairly constant maintenance with the Urals seems to hold me back as well as their lack of higher speed capability for interstate travel. I'd like to hear from Ural owners about their personal experience both good and bad.

My fondness of Airhead BMW's have me wishing there was a R80/90/100 with 2 wheel drive with a hack big enough for wife and/or dog to ride comfortably. Preferably it will be able to handle interstate speeds while not requiring frequent maintenance.

Heavier would seem to be more stable. Or so I think so based on what I have read.

I hate that I missed the gathering in Texas. I would have made the trip for sure! Hopefully there will be one close fairly soon!

Still reading and learning all I can, where I can.

For information on the Ural, try this link at anther forum. http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794963
In general 2wd is not really very use full on any thing but a Ural. Urals are heavy, low powered have skinny tires and do not have much ground clearance. A couple of years back I was running the Black Dog which is an AMA Enduro event in Oregon. After the event several of the sidecar riders we sitting around talking about the even. One after another Ural owner was talking about a difficult part of the trail where they had to use 2wd and really work to get through it. After a while I was able to figure out just where they were talking about. So when my turn came up, I was on a BMW R1100GS with our M72D sidecar I was able to tell them how I got through the hard area. All I said was, more throttle.
We can build 2WD on any of the R1200GS both water and oil cooled however really all you get with 2WD is bragging rights, a lighter wallet and stuck about 50 feet further down the trail then you would be with out it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1792

A one wheel drive Ural will do just about anything off road that a 2-wheel drive Ural can do and some things it can even do better. The older Troykas were also meant to be a solo bike, as well, so you can have the best of both worlds in owning one. Top speed on a Troya model will likely do better than a Patrol or a GearUp model, too. They are not meant to be a highway cruiser though, as the norm. The Troyka was not the only Ural built to be a solo though. You can indeed find other bikes that have been modified to add a hack to them, but the typical Ural will have all the accessories and such that were specifically built to make it a real sidecar unit from the get go. It may not have everything you specifically want and may not be just the right thing you would actually choose, but it is a good choice for the most part as a simplistic starter rig. It is really up to the individual as to what they want and what they wish to learn on. If life is in the slow lane for you and the back roads are more enticing that the open highway, then a Ural may be just the right thing to start out with. If your not a mechanic and maintenance is not you strong suite, then perhaps a bike that has a better dealership network may be the better choice. Most Uralists learn to turn a wrench immediately and that is often more of a plus than a minus to them. Not saying at all that a Ural is the best choice in any manner, but just that it is a good choice to at least consider. Me, I don't care in the least for the new model Urals and feel they are waaaaay overpriced, myself, but I would not trade off my '05 Troyka for any of the other choices out there, regrdless which brand. I guess I am just too attached to the minor quirks of it at this time. I like dependability, even if in a quirk. 🙂

Good luck in choosing wisely as to a pick that meets your own needs. Nothing wrong in the least in choosing something other than a Ural if that is what makes you satisfied.

Any idea to a street value for an 06 Ural Patrol with 2500 miles that is all stock except a machine gun mount? (Usually don't see that in a mc advert ??).

Well, I've already listed my pros and cons for a starter Ural, so here's my list of maintenance items I got tired of dealing with:

1.) Tires. Options are very limited for the 19"x 4" rims, and they wear as quickly as sportbike tires. I never got the hang of changing them myself.

2.) Fluids. The Ural requires an oil change every 2500 KM (not miles!). The fill holes are all smaller than my pinky and have a bad tendency to catch an air bubble and "burp" new oil all over the side of the engine while refilling.

3.) The infamous "rubber donut". This is the rubber universal-joint-like shock absorber that ties the output shaft to the final drive. It's a wear item, and on my model, a royal PITA to replace because you have to remove the entire rear swingarm.

4.) Valve adjustments. While simple, they're frequent and mildly annoying.

5.) Quirky carbs. Like most carbs, you have to adjust them as the seasonal temperature changes. I never could find their happy place during hot weather. If it idled well cold and ran well, it would often not idle after the engine was hot. Jet swaps and screw adjustments never worked it out. Not all Urals do this, but enough that it's considered commonplace. I'd have to blip the throttle at stop signs to keep it going.

~SM

Thanks for the info Swordsman! Looks like the Ural deal will fall thru. He wants $8500 for his 06 Patrol and I think that is too high!

Okay I'll tell what a starter sidecar rig should be.
AHonda Ruckus with a rigid cargo sidecar, built in proportion to its' size.
It will require all the sidecar skills be learned yet won't go fast enough or weigh enough to be lethal in the event of a foo poo.
notice I can't spell french.
You will learn about how it lifts when turning towards the hack and how it tends to go over diagonal when turning way from the hack.
Neither of these crashes is likely to kill you on such a small slow rig yet you will learn to feel tendencies before they actually do it.
It might even be fun.

Yeah, $8500 is definitely too much. That's how much my '10 T sold for with about 2 grand in accessories, and I thought I made out pretty darn good. Granted, the Patrol comes with a lot of goodies too (like 2WD), but still, that's too much for an '06. If you continue looking for a Ural, 2007+ would be the best years. That's when they switched to the Ducati electronic ignition and Herzog gears. I think 2005+ uses the Denso alternator, which is a MUST. I don't remember the details, but something about the older alternators and/or timing gears caused frequent catastrophic engine failure. They actually call them "hand grenade alternators".

~SM

Honda Ruckus would not be my first choice in a first sidecar rig however it can be done, here is a link to a photo of one we built. I would post my own photo's but can not find them.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=888724
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

This is something you may want to look at. It is so much fun if you like the two lane, it will do the interstate but it is not as much fun. I bought a KLR in 09 and rode it for a couple of years. When I retired I got an enduro sidecar from DMC and put it on my KLR. I did the tail of the dragon this spring and had a great time.

I thought about a single dual sport but I like the F650 better than the KLR. It has a bit more HP and was so smooth when comparing the 2.

SwampFox - 10/10/2014 8:19 AM

Crilly - 10/9/2014 8:42 PM
... My conclusion is there is no starter rig. You have to learn to ride them safely each time you ride them....

 Very true.  Whereas a smaller cc/lightweight motorcycle is generally a good starter/learner for 2-wheels, such is not necessarily the situation with sidecar rigs.   For example, the "little" MZ Silverstar Gespann imported back in the '90's would appear to be a good "starter rig" due to its smaller dimensions:

 

However, the Silverstar requires the full compliment of sidecar operating skills to safely operate at anything more than a sedate pace.  The driving dynamics of the wider/heavier touring rigs are quite different; similar, but different.  And changing load/ballast in the sidecar affects push/pull/lift different on every rig.

 

I bought one of these new and still own it today. Fun little reg after I put a leading link forks on it. Still harder to ride compared to either one of my EMLs.

Hi Tim, Nice to hear you still have the MZ, Tara and I have owned the same one 3 times now. The current owner is in the Portland area. Fun little around town bike, ok on the highway but does take more skill to ride then many of the larger bikes. We used ours a few times in training classes before the ranges had their own bikes.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793

Back to the gentleman's question: Is there a "starter" sidecar rig? Yes, a Ural.

If you are a "starter" sidecar driver, like me when I first got into it, you don't know squat about driving hacks, setting up a rig, or even what to look for in a rig. If you are a "starter", would you know if a rig is set up properly? No! A Ural comes from the factory/dealer set up so you remove that worry. They are affordable and easy to resell later. Is it the perfect rig? Depends on what you want to do with it on down the road, but for now, it is a great "starter" rig. Is very forgiving and will allow you to learn the important basic techniques for controlling a rig before advancing onto a more powerful, less forgiving rig.

As everyone here can attest, there are great looking rigs for sale out there that are set up wrong, even dangerous. If you are a "Starter", you won't know they are wrong. Riding one, you might think 'so this is what sidecar driving is like'. That would be a wrong impression.
Until you have ridden a couple thousand of miles on a correctly set up rig, you still don't know what is normal and what is dangerous.

If you want to START wrenching more and riding less, find a pre-2007 Ural. For more riding and wrenching less, find a post-2007 Ural. After you get your sea legs under you, in this case, hack legs, then start looking for a rig more of what you want. Just as few of us learned to ride two wheels on a 120 hp motorcycle, it is not only foolhardy but dangerous to learn driving a hack on a high performance rig. The faster you go the more unforgiving any machine can be. Learn to walk before you run. All the knowledge and experience you have on two wheels, is not transferrable to sidecars. They are different animals. They act different and react different than two wheels.

Start off slow, learn the basics until they become instinctive, then progress onto faster or more rugged off-road rigs, if that is what you want.

We want more sidecar drivers in this niche sport, who love the three wheel ride. Not someone bad mouthing the sport all because they tried to learn on the wrong rig and quit.

FWIW, I went through three Urals before my current Goldwing rig. Each Ural was resold for the same price or more than what I paid for it. Shop and look, bargains are out there. Look on them as your "starter" rig, not as the only rig you will ever own.

Ride safe and long,
CCjon