Skip to content
Valve Adjustment Pr...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Valve Adjustment Problem / Bad valve

56 Posts
10 Users
159 Reactions
772 Views
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @miles-ladue

Keeps your hands  warmer, and  cleaner.

Yes, I wear pretty heavy nitrile gloves and they help some, but those wrenches and ratchets still feel like blocks of ice with the temps we have been having. At least it's supposed to be in the 40's this week so maybe I'll make a little more progress.  I'll keep you all informed.

 
Posted : January 27, 2025 9:54 pm
SwampFox, Brstr, FlyingMonkeys and 1 people reacted
 MGV8
(@mgv8)
Posts: 212
Reputable Member
 

Can't help you there,, Being in Canada my shop is heated year round lol8  

 
Posted : January 28, 2025 11:45 am
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @mgv8

Can't help you there,, Being in Canada my shop is heated year round

I envy your heated shop, but I certainly don't envy the much colder weather you have. The older I get the closer I come to becoming a Florida snow bird.

 

 
Posted : January 28, 2025 4:29 pm
Brstr and FlyingMonkeys reacted
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 227
Honorable Member
 

@floyd-h My shop in the Phoenix area has really good heat (in August!)

image
 
Posted : January 28, 2025 4:37 pm
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @ben-franklin

My shop in the Phoenix area has really good heat (in August!)

I'd take that every day over the cold. Cold makes me hurt. Heat just makes me uncomfortable as long as I can hydrate. 47 degrees in Illinois right now. - Heat Wave!

 

 
Posted : January 28, 2025 4:50 pm
Thane Lewis, Brstr, FlyingMonkeys and 1 people reacted
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @floyd-h

I'm in the process of taking the head off, but keep getting interrupted or running out of time.

valve seat   1
valve seat   2

Finally got my head off today. As you can see by the pictures, I think it's either a sucked valve or a badly damaged valve seat. My valve spring compressor is a little too big to pull the valve out for a better look. At this point it really doesn't matter to me what the problem is as the "new" head and valve train I bought on eBay the other day is due to arrive tomorrow.

    The other day another Concours owner on the COG forum suggested that when I get the new head to replace the valve seals and have a machine shop resurface the head. I can maybe see new valve seals, but is resurfacing the head really necessary? The eBay seller said this head came off of a bike with 7,600 miles on the engine. Any other suggestions on what I should do before installing this used head and valve train?

 
Posted : February 6, 2025 5:19 pm
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 227
Honorable Member
 

@floyd-h A light resurfacing is usually pretty cheap, especially if you have the valves out for new seals...  I'd do it, just to ensure good mating.  If it is expensive for some reason, you'd be fine to skip it, though.

 
Posted : February 6, 2025 6:17 pm
Thane Lewis and Brstr reacted
(@miles-ladue)
Posts: 1096
Noble Member
 

Floyd, a few things......but first......I  told ya so basic_smile

Sorry,  had to get that out, before anyone else did.

The pictures show that the  VALVE is bad, but IMO the valve  seat cut into the head is okay.  "I " would not have  bought a  used replacement head. I would have  removed this head, seen that the  valve is bad, removed that  valve, installed  new valve  seals on all valves, then installed one new valve in place of the  sucked valve,  and.....I  would have  lapped the new valve into the valve seat using  lapping  compound, and ALL of that could have been done in less than one hour, once the head had been removed. 

This used head you bought on eBay.....you need to replace all valve seals, and check the gasket side of the head for flatness.  To do that,  you need more than just a flat surface or  flat table. I have the Snap On flat bar that is used to check heads for flatness,  where you use feeler gauges to determine gap on the head. I could ship this flat bar to you,  but there are other ways to check that head for  flatness,  like a glass table top, etc.

Personally,  I am happy that the problem found is what I thought it would be,  as it shows that the  Lightning Strike did not fry all of my brain cells.  Head Explody  

Two Million Mile Rider...All 7 Continents
Exploring the World in Comfort

 
Posted : February 6, 2025 6:21 pm
Thane Lewis and Brstr reacted
(@scott-h)
Posts: 830
Noble Member
 

Nice Work! 👍 

Well, now you have a back up head that you can either sell as is, fix and sell, or just keep on the shelf. 

If I were in your work boots, I'd take the new head to a competent machinist to have the surface cleaned, and checked for flatness.  Let him make the recommendation as to any other work.  The cost for cleaning, and cursory inspection is a nice peace of mind. 

Hold my keyboard and watch this! 🙃

 
Posted : February 6, 2025 7:47 pm
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @miles-ladue

"I " would not have  bought a  used replacement head. I would have  removed this head, seen that the  valve is bad, removed that  valve, installed  new valve  seals on all valves, then installed one new valve in place of the  sucked valve,  and.....I  would have  lapped the new valve into the valve seat using  lapping  compound, and ALL of that could have been done in less than one hour, once the head had been removed. 

Miles - I may still do what you suggest. The used head that I bought was only $159 and it included the whole valve train, camshafts, the valve cover, valve cover and head bolts, and free shipping. It seemed like a good deal to me, as every other head I saw was over $200 and didn't include all that this one did. I was afraid that someone else would snatch it up before I did if I waited. I figure if I decide not to use it that I can resell if for what I paid, if not more.

   This being my first experience with any valve work, other than just adjusting valves, what is involved with lapping a valve and installing new seals?

 
Posted : February 6, 2025 9:47 pm
(@miles-ladue)
Posts: 1096
Noble Member
 

Floyd, I  could type out the full and complete  instructions on how to  lap valves, and replace valve seals,  but.....this is the  perfect  scenario where YouTube  videos are going to be more helpful than my words. Watch motorcycle  engine  specific  videos,  and watch 5 different ones.  Frankly,  it's a simple job, if you've done it 100 times in the past. 

So, don't  overthink the process.  If you don't have the correct  valve  spring compressor,  you can rent one from an auto parts store,  or make one....using tools you  already have. 

The tool needed to lap the new valve to the  head valve seat is a very inexpensive tool....basically a  stick with a rubber cap on one end, that suction sticks to the valve head, and allows you to spin the valve in the head, with lapping compound between the underside of the valve head, and the  valve seat cut into the head. 

I...would  trust the head that was on your engine,  before I  trusted the eBay  head. But that's me.

Two Million Mile Rider...All 7 Continents
Exploring the World in Comfort

 
Posted : February 6, 2025 11:35 pm
sheath and Brstr reacted
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @miles-ladue

I...would  trust the head that was on your engine,  before I  trusted the eBay  head. But that's me.

Miles - Thanks for the good info. I definitely agree with trusting my existing head. I've decided that if the existing head is good or if I use the eBay head that I purchased earlier this week (arriving today) I'm going to replace the valve seals in either one. So, I ordered a valve spring compression kit from Amazon last night since I'll be removing 16 valves and not just one. That kit is arriving tomorrow. It was only $20 and included the lapping tool you mention, and had a lot of 5-star reviews for being a good tool. So hopefully I'll have some pictures of the bad valve to post tomorrow and I'll be asking for more advice from all of you experts. I really do appreciate your help, this forum, and the other 10 posters that have stuck with me through this problem. I'll keep y'all posted.

 
Posted : February 7, 2025 11:45 am
sheath, FlyingMonkeys, Brstr and 1 people reacted
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 
1 A
1 B
1 C
1 D
1 E
1 F
1 G
1 H
1 I
1 J
1 K
1 L
1 M

 

Okay guys, if you're still sticking with me on this post, some more interesting stuff today. My valve spring compression tool came today so I was able to easily get the bad valve out. 

Pic 1-A. This is the piston with the bad exhaust valve. I hadn't notice that scuffed up area in the center when I pulled the head off the other day. I don't feel any rough spots when I rub my finger over it.
Pic 1-B. The valve keepers
Pic 1-C - 1F. The bad exhaust valve

Pic 1-G - 1I. valve seat

Pic 1-J & 1-K. I laid the bad valve face to face with the good valve in the same cylinder. It's kind of hard to see in the pictures, but the face surface of the bad valve is definitely smaller than the good valve.
Pic 1L & 1M. My digital micrometer shows that the diameter of the bad valve is about 2mm smaller than the good valve.

Patiently waiting for your thoughts, comments, suggestions.

 
Posted : February 8, 2025 6:57 pm
sheath, FlyingMonkeys, Thane Lewis and 1 people reacted
(@floyd-h)
Posts: 52
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @floyd-h

Pic 1-B. The valve keepers

Sorry, I forgot to say that the picture of the keepers is not 3 keepers, but one of them is broken into 2 pieces.

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by Floyd H
 
Posted : February 8, 2025 7:06 pm
sheath, FlyingMonkeys, Thane Lewis and 1 people reacted
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 227
Honorable Member
 

Floyd, thanks for the pics.  I'm sure you will get some interesting advice.

 

My opinion:  You have a few options, depending upon how long you think you might want to keep the bike running and how much you want to spend.

Option 1.  Probably the cheapest, fastest option:  clean up the mating surfaces on the ebay head and engine block, leak test the valves with WD40 or some other such liquid, slap it on with fresh gaskets and oil, and call it a day.  Probability of success is pretty good if the seller isn't a complete liar and the valves pass the leak test.

Option 2.  Variation of option 1.  Remove all the valves, lightly lap them and install new seals.

Option 3.  Finish tearing down your original head, replace seals, surface grind head flat, buy a new valve (or steal one out of the ebay head), lap all valves lightly, reassemble, leak test, install with fresh oil and new gaskets.

Option 4.  Variation of #3.  Buy all new valves, lightly lap in, test, reassemble, etc.

Option 5.  Take the ebay head, or the original, to a competent OLD machinist, with at a minimum one new valve if using your original head, and ask for a nice 3 angle valve job with a narrow cut seat.  Inspect all seats, replace as necessary.  Tank the head, bead blast the ports clean, surface grind, install new seals and maybe if they do race work, clean up the ports and put it on a flow bench to adjust port flow.  This would be the option for "I want to keep the bike a real long time and I don't care so much what it costs, within reason."  Maybe a variation on this would include all new valves.  A further variation could have you pull the cylinders, inspect, hone and put in new piston rings, but if the bike was not using oil and no visible cylinder damage, probably not needed.

Now, what would I do?  Since you have a spare head, I would pick option 1 or maybe 2 and probably ride the hell out of it for a real long time.  If it pukes, take the remaining head in for option 5.  Probably will last a long time, though, if the valves seal and demonstrate this by holding liquid.  Of course, set the valve clearances correctly, on whatever option you select.

From what you are sharing, so far, I am guessing the nut backed off, hammered the problem valve spring retainer a few times to break the keeper, and the resulting chaos let the valve burn by holding it open from sealing.  Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

 

 

 
Posted : February 8, 2025 10:19 pm
sheath, Brstr, FlyingMonkeys and 1 people reacted
Page 3 / 4