Toe in setting

That's kind of odd, to say it works for everything. Some bikes have offset rear wheels, which would make his reading off, and some have narrower front rims than rear. I've always started at about 3/4 inch, then adjusted it by feel. (Ride, adjust, ride, adjust), until it feels right. Once it feels right, I measure once more and record the measurements.

Although I don't recommend this, When I had the Dnepr, I actually had my kid ride in the sidecar with a small scissors jack, wedged between the bike and car. We tightened everything up except the front lower, which we snugged up, with the car pulled in about 2 inches. He kept adjusting it out until it felt right, then hung over the side and tightened things down. :O .

With a CSC FS II/Guzzi, I would start with 1/2" to 3/4" toe-in measured from just in front of the front wheel and just in back of the rear wheel from a straightedge placed tightly against the rear wheel and another placed snugly against the sidecar wheel. I use 1"x1" square tubing for this purpose. Block the straightedges up a bit for the best readings. (The rear bike wheel controls the direction the bike will travel).
Using a 1 to 1 1/2 degree leanout for starters run the rig for a few miles and check the sidecar tire tread for any unusual wear pattern like rounded tread edges on either side or a thin rubber feather at the edge of the treads. This will indicate an out of toe condition where the car is being pushed or dragged to either side.
Incrementally adjust the toe-in to get rid of either condition.
Don't use toe-in to control the rig pulling to the right or left.
Pulling to the left or right is controlled by adjusting the leanout. More leanout will force the rig to the left (USA), less leanout or lean-in will push it to the right
Tweak for neutral steering first, then for tire wear.

Lonnie

Thanks Lonnie, That clears things up some, I erroneously thought toe in controlled left or right pull. A question regarding lean out.... when I put a small magnetic level on the 3 brake discs, the bike is perfectly level unloaded, but when I sit my fat arse on the bike, with about 70 lbs ballast in the hack, the level's bubble is just touching the far right extreme ( lean out) of the level. I hope you can visualize what I am referring to, as I am not sure how much that translates to in degrees? I have a 155 sr 13 tire on the car instead of the stock 145 sr 13, so my car sits a tad higher than stock. I appreciate your help, Rick.

Hi Mike, I think what he meant by the "center of the rims" is if you rotate the wheel so the valve stem is on the 6 0 clock position, and the valve stem hole is drilled in the center of the rim, you would make a little mark with a sharpie right at the center of the valve stem hole, that way you would theoretically find the true center of each wheel even if the rear wheel is wider than the front. I compared measurement that way , and using 2 straight edges against the tires sidewall, like most folks do it. I got 1/2" toe in measuring to the center of the rims, and 3/4 " using the 2 straight edges method. I like the way you do the adjustment "on the fly" my problem, is I cant tell how it is supposed to feel when it "feels right" HeHe 😉 Rick

Bigbikerrick - 11/24/2009 10:02 PM Thanks Lonnie, That clears things up some, I erroneously thought toe in controlled left or right pull. A question regarding lean out.... when I put a small magnetic level on the 3 brake discs, the bike is perfectly level unloaded, but when I sit my fat arse on the bike, with about 70 lbs ballast in the hack, the level's bubble is just touching the far right extreme ( lean out) of the level. I hope you can visualize what I am referring to, as I am not sure how much that translates to in degrees? I have a 155 sr 13 tire on the car instead of the stock 145 sr 13, so my car sits a tad higher than stock. I appreciate your help, Rick.

Try one of these. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34214

It's magnetic, so I stick it to the brake rotor. I make sure all my measurements take place with the rig loaded as it will be on the road.

Some people just use a carpenter's square standing next to the tire, but the measurement would be different depending on tire height.

Thanks Mike, this weekend when I go to Tucson, I will have to hit the harbor freight store, and pick up one of those little jewels. Rick.

Bigbikerrick - 11/24/2009 10:15 PM <SNIP> I cant tell how it is supposed to feel when it "feels right" HeHe 😉 Rick

Going down a deserted road, I relax my grip a little on the handlebars. It should pull LIGHTLY to the right because of the road crown. Now, cross the centerline. It should now pull a little to the left. That's when it feels right to me. When I first set up my Valkyrie with the Ural car, I had it set up pretty well for normal riding, i.e. me on the bike and an empty sidecar. Then my wife decided to accompany me on a trip to Iowa. By the time I got to my destination I thought my left arm was pulled out of it's socket and my right hand was so sore from pushing the handgrip that I couldn't pick up a glass of adult beverage. 😉 Always make your adjustments loaded for use. Now I have electric lean and can compensate. Back then I should have adjusted for the trip.

Mike, you have electric lean on the Guzzi? can you give me some info on that, re price,how it looks,/ pics if not too much trouble. Thanks Rick

Good advice seen here. Bottom line is 'lean left to go left and lean right to go right'. That shoudl be followed by rechecking the toe in as on some rtigs changing the lean out will change the toe in. If th etoe in stays close to what it was there may be no sense in dealing with adjusting it. It isn't th efigures that matter as much as th eresults they produce.
Toe in is needed. Too much will show up as increased tire wear usually on the rear of the bike. Too much usually is not detected in the way a rig handles. Too little toe in or or toe out will increase the pull to the right.
Some times tire wear will show up on the sidecar tire instead of the rear bike tire. This can be so if a larger rear tire is on the bike and a small tire , width wise, is on the sidecar. I suppose the large tire 'overpowers' the smaller one.
To check tow in you only need to go off th esidecar tire and the rear tire of th ebike. It is nto abad idea to rotate th etires when checking to get all th evalave stems facing down. This will allow you to duplicate th efigures and give you a base line to work from.
All rigs are a lilltle different, all drivers are a lillte different and so on, blah blah. The basic principles are the same though. So with that in mind take your time , don't be afraid to play with your setup and have fun. Patience is the key but you will find, over time, that once you can see what various changes do for yopu or against you you will get alot of satisfaction out of dealing with it.

Thanks Claude, I appreciate all the tips. It seems a sidecar rig is like heaven for a person that loves to "tinker" ( thats me!) since everything is a "compromise", and its all about "feel", etc. Its all very subjective. like how sometimes we feel that our bike runs /feels much better after an oil change, or a good washing and waxing, etc. hey, its all good! I think I have been bit hard by the sidecar Bug, I really enjoy driving my rig, much more than my Goldwing trike. Its very satisfying tweaking it, then taking it for a test ride, tweaking some more, repeat....I guess some might call it a "Zen thing" HeHeHe 🙂 Thanks again, Rick.

Bigbikerrick - 11/24/2009 8:24 PM

Thanks Mike, this weekend when I go to Tucson, I will have to hit the harbor freight store, and pick up one of those little jewels. Rick.

Sears has them also. It's usually called a magnetic protractor. They are still Chinese but they are built in a higher class neighborhood. LOL

Seals Loebuck, Harbor Fleight allesame. Lead guage to show 1 to 1 1/2 deglee lean-out loaded. 🙂

Hack'n - 11/25/2009 4:43 PM

Seals Loebuck, Harbor Fleight allesame. Lead guage to show 1 to 1 1/2 deglee lean-out loaded. 🙂

Well, prolly nowadays they are the same. I have a Magnetic Protractor that I bought from Sears about 20 years ago and, guess what? It was made in USA!

I set my lean to 0 and when I put my haunches on the saddle, I'm usually about 1 degree so we are in sync. there. I also have 3/4 toe-in. With those settings, my HD tracks beautifully and it's very "soft" with regard to different crowns on the roads, that is, it doesn't tend to wander. I'm really pleased with it. It's much more stable than the two older ones I had that were drum brake frames.

I'm still using my Craftsman US model too. If it finally dies from forgetting to take it off the front rotor and driving off with it attached I will start using the brand new (a few years back) chinese one I have in my desk.
(They do read the same even tho' the Chinese one is upside down).
I also have a Taiwanee digital vernier caliper sitting next to it, also unused. Haven't read it yet.;)

Happy Holidays 🙂