Oil cooling

Wow. You ask the tough questions.  And let me be the first to admit I don't know and am just throwing out some things to think about.

With an Airhead the internal pump could handle the addition of an external cooler because it was just moving oil.  You have more oil in the system but it's just exchanging it.  I put one on my race rig and didn't change the pump. 

An oilhead is a different beast and since it uses oil to cool the engine there is probably some level of pressure control and volume of exchange that needs to be taken into account.

I've heard of people using the HP2 oil pump in other R engine bikes because it has bigger gears but it uses the same housing.  Supposedly the swap will raise the pressure and exchange volume. Since the 2010-2012 R1200gs (and R9t) use the HP motor maybe some of the parts would fit your bike.

Here's a thread.  It doesn't describe that swap but talks about people doing it.  ie. Starting place. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/895452-hp2-oil-pump-into-r1200s.html

Whatever you do I would put an oil pressure gauge on and do several readings as stock and then keep and eye on the pressure after any changes.

I am planning on installing an additional external cooler on the Double Bandit.   

First question is. Is oil running in normal range ?  If oil does not maintain at least 180 degrees it will not cook off moisture.

If engine does not maintain normal operating temp , Fuel mileage will suffer

Quote from Drew on November 30, 2023, 5:53 pm

Wow. You ask the tough questions.  And let me be the first to admit I don't know and am just throwing out some things to think about.

With an Airhead the internal pump could handle the addition of an external cooler because it was just moving oil.  You have more oil in the system but it's just exchanging it.  I put one on my race rig and didn't change the pump. 

An oilhead is a different beast and since it uses oil to cool the engine there is probably some level of pressure control and volume of exchange that needs to be taken into account.

I've heard of people using the HP2 oil pump in other R engine bikes because it has bigger gears but it uses the same housing.  Supposedly the swap will raise the pressure and exchange volume. Since the 2010-2012 R1200gs (and R9t) use the HP motor maybe some of the parts would fit your bike.

Here's a thread.  It doesn't describe that swap but talks about people doing it.  ie. Starting place. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/895452-hp2-oil-pump-into-r1200s.html

Whatever you do I would put an oil pressure gauge on and do several readings as stock and then keep and eye on the pressure after any changes.

 

 

 

Thanks for the link.  They involved upgrading to the HP oil pump for greater output.  The last thing I want to do is get inside that front cover and mess with the timing gears & chain to get to the oil pump to swap it out.  I think I would just replace the OEM oil cooler with my new one before opening up the engine.

Thanks again

Quote from smitty901 on November 30, 2023, 6:38 pm

First question is. Is oil running in normal range ?  If oil does not maintain at least 180 degrees it will not cook off moisture.

If engine does not maintain normal operating temp , Fuel mileage will suffer

Most of the time it is well within the normal range.  Living in Southwestern USA, we don't really have humidity related issues like cooking off moisture.  We can see several weeks with temps in the 100 to 110 F range.  The rig is rarely used for short hops of less than an hour. A cover could easily be made to block the airflow for cold weather riding.

Thanks for the response.

Quote from StrongBad on November 30, 2023, 6:50 pm

I think I would just replace the OEM oil cooler with my new one before opening up the engine.

If the new cooler has slightly more volume or is configured with more surface (cooling) area, that might be all you need. 

As for not wanting to dig the oil pump out all I can say is - Can't blame you. Start simple.

Quote from StrongBad on November 30, 2023, 7:04 pm

Quote from smitty901 on November 30, 2023, 6:38 pm

First question is. Is oil running in normal range ?  If oil does not maintain at least 180 degrees it will not cook off moisture.

If engine does not maintain normal operating temp , Fuel mileage will suffer

Most of the time it is well within the normal range.  Living in Southwestern USA, we don't really have humidity related issues like cooking off moisture.  We can see several weeks with temps in the 100 to 110 F range.  The rig is rarely used for short hops of less than an hour. A cover could easily be made to block the airflow for cold weather riding.

Thanks for the response.

Much of the moisture that gets into oil is condensate from combustion, not so much from atmospheric intrusion.  The long run is what will drive out the moisture so you're in a better position than we who live in northern/temperate climates. 

My V-strom does not have a functioning radiator fan at present so when I went to Sturgis this summer, the parade caused it to reach temp levels I hadn't seen before so I turned off to park further away, then never had a slow ride since.  The fan is on my to-do list for spring and most of my rides are long enough to get everything fully heated, even in spring/fall.

Quote from Thane Lewis on December 1, 2023, 9:56 am

Quote from StrongBad on November 30, 2023, 7:04 pm

Quote from smitty901 on November 30, 2023, 6:38 pm

First question is. Is oil running in normal range ?  If oil does not maintain at least 180 degrees it will not cook off moisture.

If engine does not maintain normal operating temp , Fuel mileage will suffer

Most of the time it is well within the normal range.  Living in Southwestern USA, we don't really have humidity related issues like cooking off moisture.  We can see several weeks with temps in the 100 to 110 F range.  The rig is rarely used for short hops of less than an hour. A cover could easily be made to block the airflow for cold weather riding.

Thanks for the response.

Much of the moisture that gets into oil is condensate from combustion, not so much from atmospheric intrusion.  The long run is what will drive out the moisture so you're in a better position than we who live in northern/temperate climates. 

My V-strom does not have a functioning radiator fan at present so when I went to Sturgis this summer, the parade caused it to reach temp levels I hadn't seen before so I turned off to park further away, then never had a slow ride since.  The fan is on my to-do list for spring and most of my rides are long enough to get everything fully heated, even in spring/fall.

There has been an aftermarket fan suggested and I believe the BMW RT-P police bikes have fans.  I liked the idea of having the extra oil volume with the additional cooler and lines as a bonus.

Here is a link for the aftermarket fan, perhaps it is something you could adapt to your rig:

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/parts/tusk-digital-radiator-fan-kit-p  

It would be nice to have an Oil flow diagram for your bike. It would tell you where the pressure control would be.. but I really suspect that it would not be after the OEM cooler..  So plumbing in your extra cooler on the return side of that system would probably be just fine.. I doubt if there is any restriction in the cooler your son built so all you would really be doing is adding extra volume of oil. Never a bad thing and the extra cooling of course. 

Maybe some of the original promo/tech material that BMW put out would have some design pictures of the oil flow through the engine.. That is where we got a lot of info in the car industry.. When I was at Honda/Toyota any time we got a new model on engine we would get a huge sheaf of paper showing all the ins and outs of the design.. Beemer might have produced the same sort of stuff. 

Quote from MGV8 on December 1, 2023, 10:47 am

It would be nice to have an Oil flow diagram for your bike. It would tell you where the pressure control would be.. but I really suspect that it would not be after the OEM cooler..  So plumbing in your extra cooler on the return side of that system would probably be just fine.. I doubt if there is any restriction in the cooler your son built so all you would really be doing is adding extra volume of oil. Never a bad thing and the extra cooling of course. 

Maybe some of the original promo/tech material that BMW put out would have some design pictures of the oil flow through the engine.. That is where we got a lot of info in the car industry.. When I was at Honda/Toyota any time we got a new model on engine we would get a huge sheaf of paper showing all the ins and outs of the design.. Beemer might have produced the same sort of stuff. 

I was hoping your would chime in with your wrenching experience.  You make a great point about plumbing it in on the return side of the existing cooler. 

Finding a flow diagram will help considerably, I'll start digging for that information.

Thanks for your input, it is very much appreciated!

Ha!  I found on the parts diagram it has the inlet and outlet pipes to the cooler labeled. The inlet is shown as # 1 and the outlet is shown as #2

Putting a cooler on the sidecar strut where it would be in the wind has some precedent.

After all of the different comments I've received, I think I'm going to see about replacing the OEM cooler with the aluminum plate cooler and add a fan.  Thanks everyone for your input!