Getting started with a sidecar

With the dmc brake is the system you use a bolt on item that will fit my swing arm which has the bushing I got from you and replaced. Thanks

So if I am understanding all of this There is a brake kit that will fit my California friendship side car the cost and where to get would be helpful thanks, warren

Warren I'm not yet an owner but from what I've read the tire pressures can have a heck of a lot to do with front end shimmy. As I recall, most call for higher pressures, but of course within tire's specs. The guys can suggest specifics but just to let you know it can help cure the problem.

Also you want to be sure the front tire is properly balanced, another job you can easily do at home. Again, the guys will have details on that too. Might as well try the easy and cheap stuff first?

XLerate - 4/2/2013 6:29 PM

Warren I'm not yet an owner but from what I've read the tire pressures can have a heck of a lot to do with front end shimmy. As I recall, most call for higher pressures, but of course within tire's specs. The guys can suggest specifics but just to let you know it can help cure the problem.

Also you want to be sure the front tire is properly balanced, another job you can easily do at home. Again, the guys will have details on that too. Might as well try the easy and cheap stuff first?

With a stock triple tree with out a damper you are going to get quite a bit of head shake! This is why Harley sidecars come with a steering damper as well as many others.

Please if you do not have any experience make sure you are giving good advice not just guessing. I am no expert but do have a sidecar for over 6 months and have put over 4,000 miles in that time. It is my daily rider and just about my only transportation.

XLerate - 4/2/2013 5:29 PM
... tire pressures can have a heck of a lot to do with front end shimmy....

For example, prior to installing the modified triple tree, I found my XL883R Sporter handled best, with the least shimmy, after tightening the steering head bearings a little (maybe 5ft.lbs?) and running 39PSI in front Dunlop.

Lee
MB5+TW200+CRF250L+GTV300+INT650
XL883R w/Texas Ranger Sidecar
Zuma 50F + Burgman w/Texas Sidecar<Mrs. SwampFox

 

46u - 4/2/2013 3:26 PM

XLerate - 4/2/2013 6:29 PM

Warren I'm not yet an owner but from what I've read the tire pressures can have a heck of a lot to do with front end shimmy. As I recall, most call for higher pressures, but of course within tire's specs. The guys can suggest specifics but just to let you know it can help cure the problem.

Also you want to be sure the front tire is properly balanced, another job you can easily do at home. Again, the guys will have details on that too. Might as well try the easy and cheap stuff first?

With a stock triple tree with out a damper you are going to get quite a bit of head shake! This is why Harley sidecars come with a steering damper as well as many others.

Please if you do not have any experience make sure you are giving good advice not just guessing. I am no expert but do have a sidecar for over 6 months and have put over 4,000 miles in that time. It is my daily rider and just about my only transportation.

I wasn't by any means 'guessing' as you suggest. I got my sidecar related information the same way you get yours, from internet forums. You are however guessing that I don't have any experience. I'm not a 13 year old using mom's computer. I've also been a motorcycle rider and mechanic/gearhead since about 1963 and have owned many bikes over the years, 9 or 10 at present.

I have personally found that tire inflation can have a tremendous influence on front wheel shimmy on any vehicle, but most on a motorcycle front wheel, and particularly sidecar equipped motorcycle front wheels. I have also found that front wheel balance can have an equally dramatic effect on front wheel shimmy or head shake, on any wheeled vehicle.

In addition to that, because I'm currently researching information on sidecars, I have seen several posts on the forums here and elsewhere where those with expert knowledge and experience or other hands-on personal experience have said that tire pressure and/or balancing has a big effect on wheel shimmy. Therefore I post that same accurate information in order to help Warren find the easiest and cheapest cure for the problem, instead of just throwing money at it.

Your post gives a generalization that with a stock triple tree one is sure to get headshake without a damper. That is not in agreement with most reports that a damper is not often necessary if a front end and/or sidecar outfit is set up properly with correct components and adjustments. It is viewed by most as a last resort when the problem cannot be cured otherwise.

Aside from Harley Davidson, what other sidecar mfgr. insists on or provides a damper or custom triple tree with every sidecar they sell or set up? With what other companies is a damper or custom triple tree standard equipment for every sidecar sold? Surely if head shake is unavoidable and to be expected as you claim they would address that problem?

Are we to assume from your post that you are saying tire air pressure has no effect on front wheel shimmy?

Are you also saying that front tire balance has no effect on tire shimmy or 'head shake'?

I suspect you're still offended by my unflattering description of a Harley Davidson I worked on a few weeks back.

.

XLerate - 4/2/2013 11:18 PM

46u - 4/2/2013 3:26 PM

XLerate - 4/2/2013 6:29 PM

Warren I'm not yet an owner but from what I've read the tire pressures can have a heck of a lot to do with front end shimmy. As I recall, most call for higher pressures, but of course within tire's specs. The guys can suggest specifics but just to let you know it can help cure the problem.

Also you want to be sure the front tire is properly balanced, another job you can easily do at home. Again, the guys will have details on that too. Might as well try the easy and cheap stuff first?

With a stock triple tree with out a damper you are going to get quite a bit of head shake! This is why Harley sidecars come with a steering damper as well as many others.

Please if you do not have any experience make sure you are giving good advice not just guessing. I am no expert but do have a sidecar for over 6 months and have put over 4,000 miles in that time. It is my daily rider and just about my only transportation.

I wasn't by any means 'guessing' as you suggest. I got my sidecar related information the same way you get yours, from internet forums. You are however guessing that I don't have any experience. I'm not a 13 year old using mom's computer. I've also been a motorcycle rider and mechanic/gearhead since about 1963 and have owned many bikes over the years, 9 or 10 at present. I completed my Appreticships in motor vehicles back in the dark ages with Volvo of Sweden, was also with Datsun of Japan when they were still called Datsun not Nissan, and for Ford of England for Cortina Anglia and Ford Cortina Lotus. I was a pit crew chief for a Ford Lotus sports racing campaign and was later on the Chrysler Corporation Engineering Advisory Board and have been intimately involved with motor vehicle mechanics, racing and engineering all my life. I know the difference between a box wrench and a screwdriver too.

I have personally found that tire inflation can have a tremendous influence on front wheel shimmy on any vehicle, but most on a motorcycle front wheel, and particularly sidecar equipped motorcycle front wheels. I have also found that front wheel balance can have an equally dramatic effect on front wheel shimmy or head shake, on any wheeled vehicle.

In addition to that, because I'm currently researching information on sidecars, I have seen several posts on the forums here and elsewhere where those with expert knowledge and experience or other hands-on personal experience have said that tire pressure and/or balancing has a big effect on wheel shimmy. Therefore I post that same accurate information in order to help Warren find the easiest and cheapest cure for the problem, instead of just throwing money at it.

Your post gives a generalization that with a stock triple tree one is sure to get headshake without a damper. That is not in agreement with most reports that a damper is not often necessary if a front end and/or sidecar outfit is set up properly with correct components and adjustments. It is viewed by most as a last resort when the problem cannot be cured otherwise.

Aside from Harley Davidson, what other sidecar mfgr. insists on or provides a damper or custom triple tree with every sidecar they sell or set up? With what other companies is a damper or custom triple tree standard equipment for every sidecar sold? Surely if head shake is unavoidable and to be expected as you claim they would address that problem?

Are we to assume from your post that you are saying tire air pressure has no effect on front wheel shimmy?

Are you also saying that front tire balance has no effect on tire shimmy or 'head shake'?

I suspect you're still offended by my unflattering description of a Harley Davidson I worked on a few weeks back.

.

IF you are not running a raked triple tree you will get head shake and is why so many run damper does no matter how you set it up. Ask those here! Like I said I am no expert when it comes to rigs but I do have more experience on then you as well as many of my close friends have been driving them for 20 plus years which I have been around them for those years.

Not only have I been riding and working on bikes none stop for 44 years. I can do more here at my house then most Harley dealerships and always have a few I am working on. I even do all my own machine work here at the house and have 3 motors going on right now not counting the other bikes and 4 wheelers ATV do not work on cars unless it is mine I am working on. If I had more room I would have more here and if my heath was better.

When my heath was good I had a shop for 13 years as well as raising 3 daughters as a single parent and always had at least one motor I was building and as many as 14 at once. I have worked on many bikes not just Harley s and still do.

No I will not recommend running over inflated tire no matter what I would recommend fixing the problem and not putting a band-aid on it. That is why many old customers still want me to work on their bikes as I do QUALITY work no matter what!

Yes I have one rig I work on that we tighten the head bearings up really tight at the customers request do to head shake but is not the correct way to do it. I even had him sigh a waver to cover my back side even thaw he is a good friend. This bike has over 230,000 miles on it and been running the hack for 100,000 miles and the hack is a VERY big one. I have been working on that bike since he bought it new in 1988. Any one else I would tell them to take it elsewhere to have it done as it is a BIG liability.

Yes there are a lot that give advice and most here you can take to the bank but I rather rely on experience then advice as I have found much advice on forums to be down out right wrong. Giving bad advise is a liability. My I ask how many rigs you have owned? My self only one but being my daily transportation I have had to learn a lot in a short time and I have. No it does not make be an expert but does make me know more from expedience then one that has never owned on.

Any bike with or with out a sidecar tire pressure, balancing makes a difference and over inflating is dangerous. On a Harley touring bike no matter what you are running 36 PSI is what is recommend by Harley on the front. Might change when they went to a 17 inch tire.
Thanks
Jeff

thanks for all the input doesn't cost much to adjust air so will give it a try, but still questioning the to brake or not to brake or a kit to put on my friendship II

Sorry for the detour, Warren!

Yes, you might want to look into tire pressure. However I never suggested in any way that you should go over the standard pressure limits for the tires you're using, we all know that's a no-no! On the balancing at home there's been lots of posts on easy ways to do this and a little searching on this and other bike forums should give some tips, if it comes to that.

The brake question could take a long while to get a simple answer. There seems to be much disagreement on all the hack forums as to whether a sidecar brake is good or bad. I can only say that from what I've seen and heard and based on other experience I'm going to put one on my build, but I can always remove it if it doesn't have the desired effects! Using Search and looking for threads related to 'sidecar brake' should give a lot of hits for info.

46U, I'm not at all embarrased to say to you what I've said in this forum all along: I have never owned a hack. I'm going to edit out my personal experience in the prior post as I don't want to get into silly bragging sessions. In short, vehicles, machines and Mechanical Engineering have been a major part of my life since I was a youngster and they still are.