A utility box on the SC frame, and frame attached to the 850 would be great for your daily commute AND weekend jaunts with the boat strapped to the top.
build the box out of wood, with top opening, and attach it to the SC frame.
put some sort of rack on top for the boat, and all your camping stuff in the box. I have seen quite a few of this type..very handy!
http://tinyurl.com/2uyv4m
similar to this but lower if necessary.
I've got a great platform to start with for your utility sidecar.
See my ad in Sidecars for sale. The URAL chassis is heavy enough used as a flatbed or utility box rig without needing ballast.
Here's a Utility rig using a CSC Companion chassis sans body. Body is a pickup utility box.
Lonnie
Northwest sidecars
Nice fotos and well made jobs, that is about the idea and even better the one with the low diamond sheat metal. Mount a preshaped and cusioned frame for the kajak + bike and go for it!
I abuse my SC frequently for tools and spares at the job(sometimes 150kg and more, but the fibreglas (carbon?) suffers a lot)
And for the winter you put the original boat for the lady with some heating.
Regards
Sven Peter Pan
Wrote a bit on the subject last week in the Technical Forum.
A nice site for more info on leaning rigs is http://www.nowandthen.info/Sidecar%20website/index.htm
I had given up on this idea due to the gloom and doomers until reading how this man decided to "go for it". I have now done the same and recommend it to anyone. Sure there are points to consider but you have that with a rigid setup too.
You would not necessarly need a "subframe" as the articulated system will not stress the frame as "flying the car" would do. Standard bike tires are fine as the bike will be leaning as it is meant to. Standard bike tires are also fine because it takes about two minutes to disconnect the sidecar and be back on two wheel.
The main downside is you won't be able to showoff your "car flying" riding skills to everyone. Believe me its a good trade.
Roy
alrighty then!! so I found some scrap aluminum I beam, about 3x2 1/2 or so, and lots of it! I have two eight footers, two 2 1/2 footers and two 4 footers!
so now I need to get a ood idea of placements etc. I plan to make it a leaning frame, with just the frame, no box or even plate floor so far. I want to give it suspension, but not sure how that should go either.
one thing I should start with is what does the car wheel lead induce? if it's even with the rear wheel of the bike what is the outcome, pros, cons? if it's ahead of the rear wheel the same?
any plans for structural ideas would be appreciated as well!!
here we go!! 😉
You might consider finding a Dnepr or Ural chassis and start from there.
It wouldn't be too expensive and is easier than starting from scratch. I don't think a leaner will be as useful for what you want to do as a rigid mount. Why to you want a flexi? They are a fun design project and folks that have them seem to like them, but they probably aren't the best design for hauling loads or for a beginner to build.
You can pretty much ignore BobZ's insistence on permanent ballast or a given weight designed in. There is no set formula- you need to ballast it for your use and skill level. Your chassis design will also affect how stable the rig is and your need for ballast. A wide track width and low rig will require much less weight to keep it on the ground than a skinny, tall rig.
What you want to do is set it up and then add some weight to the chassis near, but not in front of the sidecar wheel to give it enough stability that it won't pop right off the ground. You don't need to or probably want to weight it so much it is anchored to the ground, just use enuf weight to make the rig manageable and safe. Your track width and normal loads will change how much ballast if any you need.
With my KLR rigs I used 1/4 steel diamond plate welded to the chassis to make the deck-this added just enough weight to make them stable for my intended use, but didn't rob me of horsepower or load capacity. You will need to play with it to get it right for you.
Try a search on this forum for things like "wheel lead" this stuff has been much discussed and you will find many different opinions regarding design. Look for posts from claude#3563, tkpinsc and hack'n.
thanks for the insights, and leads on info. I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to an idea. I guess I came here to get started, but I never really have ridden a sidecar rig so I don't know the joys. just got my first two wheeler five years back, so I'm still learning that too.
it seems even the ural frames alone are ~$1200, way more than I have into either bike yet. I want to keep this on the lower end of my hobby expenditures, so what I find to work with is what I've got...
it seems like a leaner would be somewhat easier to deal with, as you don't need the structural stability to lean on it, or hold a lot of weight on it, just enough that it can pull its own wheel? also the added weight of a small frame would reduce the drag and push of the car, no?
I guess anther reason is to have the flexibility to remove it easily and still ride the bike alone. another is to reduce weight and subframe structure needed for a rigid car. and to be able to still maintain "bike speeds" in both corners. I can certainly see how flying the car would be a rush, but...
the load I have on it won't likely be very much, maybe 100lbs total, but likley less still.
its not the wind in my hair that gets me going, it's the fluidity of the arc of a turn that really does me up. like skiing or mtn biking or kayaking, it's that fine line. maybe I'll get a chance to ride a real rig before I get very far on this, but in the meantime I think I'll give it a shot!!
you'll want to talk to the guys with leaners to get the information you need.
I am totally blanking on the name of the fellow Uncle Blasto sold his Valkyrie sidecar frame to, but he made a leaner and was very happy with it. He did quite a bit of research before he put it together and would be just the man to talk to! I know his name I just disremember it at the moment. If he doesn't pop in on the conversation here I will try to figure out who he is and put you in touch.
I do know you will want to be careful where you place the the hinge points on the subframe so you don't adversely affect your toe in/out as you lean into the corners, and you want to look at the lean angles to make sure the bike or handlebar won't contact your load when you turn right.
good advice, thanks again!
I expect the loads to be low, and I want to keep the frame low too. If I put the mtn bike on it I'd set it out as far as possible to the outside to leave room there too.
Finally started building free-leaner sub-frame for my XS750!
(Just a wooden mock-up, at the moment.)
I am going to use center stand mount brackets for the rear and universal mount brackets from Velorex for the front. I was going to use engine mount bolts for the front but exhaust headers on the right side are in a way (XS is a triple so two pipes on one side.)
So far, so good.
You have an old GS. Maybe you can use engine mount bolts for the front..
Vernon mentioned track width as a stabilizing factor. Keep this in mind as it is a huge issue and can do wonder for a lighter car on a heavier bike. Be sure to know that the sidecar suspension is also a factor when mounting a sidecar out farther away from the bike. There are limits that must be dealt with.
You do not need your sidecar to be a tank to have decent handling and stability. All things are a compromise and th ekey is to get things as close to perfect as possible.
On these forums it isn;t against to rules to ask those who post how long they have been invloved with mounting sidecars and what their experience level is. Lots of opinions get expressed and that is a good thing but good intentions with little experience may not project the whole story in some cases.
I am a bit confused here.
So on a rigid rig, you can turn right as fast as ordinary passenger cars can? (without resorting to techniques such as using front brake and gas simultaneously and/or with cooperating sidecar passenger)
I think I saw posts mentioning that I must literally follow posted speed limits for corners which are way too slow for solo motorcycles and ordinary passenger cars. (Maybe they were advices for beginners..)
My very little sidecar experience with Velorex 562 + CB750K or BSA A65T tells me that I have to slow down a lot to take tight right handers. I only put 40 lbs ballast for CB and none for BSA so that may be a factor but I don't really want to tax my motorcycles (especially good old BSA) too much either to get "ordinary" cornering performance.
I understand motorcycles are not designed for sidecars and hauling a sidecar will decrease accel/decel/top speed. But to me right turns are too slow compared to the others. I can cope with reduced accel/decel in ordinary traffic but right turns are too much.
And for my Velorex, increasing track width requires almost as much modification as converting it to a free leaner....
Originally written by skiri251 on 8/11/2007 1:14 PM
I am a bit confused here.
So on a rigid rig, you can turn right as fast as ordinary passenger cars can? (without resorting to techniques such as using front brake and gas simultaneously and/or with cooperating sidecar passenger)
I think I saw posts mentioning that I must literally follow posted speed limits for corners which are way too slow for solo motorcycles and ordinary passenger cars. (Maybe they were advices for beginners..)
My very little sidecar experience with Velorex 562 + CB750K or BSA A65T tells me that I have to slow down a lot to take tight right handers. I only put 40 lbs ballast for CB and none for BSA so that may be a factor but I don't really want to tax my motorcycles (especially good old BSA) too much either to get "ordinary" cornering performance.
I understand motorcycles are not designed for sidecars and hauling a sidecar will decrease accel/decel/top speed. But to me right turns are too slow compared to the others. I can cope with reduced accel/decel in ordinary traffic but right turns are too much.
And for my Velorex, increasing track width requires almost as much modification as converting it to a free leaner....
My Harley rig has quite a wide track, something like 53". Regardless of that, I always take corners slow, at the posted speed or less. The reason is, I feel better and safer that way. I'm long past the point where I take any extra risks. I don't go so slow as to be a hazard but when I'm out, particularly with a passenger, usually a close family member, I'm only interested in riding safely and being certain that I can go home in one piece.
If you want to take corners on a sidecar really fast, it can be done but you need to have a trained "Monkey" to ride with you. I'm not speaking of a primate but rather a partner who is agile, preferably rather young and who is willing to hang out of the tub or over the rear fender far enough to make sure that the hack wheel doesn't come up on right turns or the rear wheel in left turns.
Perhaps you've seen the sidecar classes at the Isle of Man. That's what I'm talking about. Those folks take corners at breathtaking speed but they really have to work at it. So, if you want to go really fast, take your Monkey with you or else forget it and do what I do, ride the posted speeds and look at the scenery. It works for me.
There's no sense complaining about how sidecars have to corner. It's just plain physics.
Originally written by gnm109 on 8/11/2007 3:27 PM
My Harley rig has quite a wide track, something like 53". Regardless of that, I always take corners slow, at the posted speed or less. The reason is, I feel better and safer that way. I'm long past the point where I take any extra risks. I don't go so slow as to be a hazard but when I'm out, particularly with a passenger, usually a close family member, I'm only interested in riding safely and being certain that I can go home in one piece.
If you want to take corners on a sidecar really fast, it can be done but you need to have a trained "Monkey" to ride with you. I'm not speaking of a primate but rather a partner who is agile, preferably rather young and who is willing to hang out of the tub or over the rear fender far enough to make sure that the hack wheel doesn't come up on right turns or the rear wheel in left turns.
Perhaps you've seen the sidecar classes at the Isle of Man. That's what I'm talking about. Those folks take corners at breathtaking speed but they really have to work at it. So, if you want to go really fast, take your Monkey with you or else forget it and do what I do, ride the posted speeds and look at the scenery. It works for me.
There's no sense complaining about how sidecars have to corner. It's just plain physics.
You seem to confirm my understanding then.
My passenger is a 3-year old who obviously cannot do acrobatics.
I guess I am not matured enough to be a leader of slow train going through the twisties. I don't want to be a grand ma in old caddy... yet.
I was not talking about passing cars left and right. I just don't want to be a moving chicane. I don't know about where you live, but here no one drives at the posted speed limit (except grand ma maybe..)
A well balanced sidecar, properly setup with a rider who has taken time to practice will run with normal traffic under most all conditions. It can even exceed many vehicle's speed with the right rider under the right conditions. This is without taking extra risks or hotrodding the thing.
A purpose built sidecar such as we see with the High Performance Rigs today will run much faster.I would suggest looking at Roger Symington's site by clicking here to see what a well built sidecar does against sport bikes. Pretty awsome ..check out the time slips also and the bikes it was running with.
http://members.aol.com/sidebike01/Page40.html
So the potential for speed is there with a sidecar rig. Some one said speed costs money how fast do you want to go. That applies to a certain degree but to get a rig to run with the normal pack on the highway is not and should not be a big deal.
Much of it comes down to practice. If a person has a decent rig but does not comitt to expanding their skill envelope they will never gain speed. Practice is essential to allow speed to follow, and follow safely. Again thsi has nothing to do with driving like a nut or any of that but only normal sidecar operation.
Will a normal rig run with traffic? Yes! The idea that sidecars need to creep around right handers usually comes from either those new to the sport , those who have never decided to learn to ride past a certain comfort level or those with a rig that is not balanced very well...or...a combination of the above.
The idea of practice is not to be able to drive like a manaic but one of saftey. If a sidecarist does not comit to learning more and more about their rig and how it handles under varied conditions he or she has set themselves up for a mess when an emergency confronts them. In other words they may think they are being safe but in reality they have cheated themselves from aquiring the skills that coould save their and their loved ones lives at some point. Same philosphy goes for two wheelers of course.
The concept may seem foreign to some and that is too bad. I f we could all think of ourselves as 'practicing sidecarists' and make it a point to try and learn someting everytime we ride it would eb a good thing for u sand the sport.
Practicing under safe conditions is th ekey at first. A parking lot or whatever is the place to be. From there once one has aquired a feeling for what is going on the practice shoudl never end...yopur rig will talk to you as you aquire new skills and at some point you will be abel to hear it better and better. Lots to learn and it can be fun.
Don't cheat yourself.
