watsonian monaco on a 1960s BSA/triumph 650?

I haven't built a rig myself but I approach most things from an engineering eye so...

I can see A LOT of welding to make a subframe for this combination.  Cross bracing galore and some long runs that could be troublesome.

Also, a 650 BSA pulling a fairly heavy Watsonian is going to be a very slow going rig.  If you hope to get over 50 mph, it's asking a lot of that motor and transmission.

I could see a modern Thunderbird or Thruxton being well suited to the task, as well as a Valkyrie or RIII. 

did i have some assistance with tbe images? if so, thank you. imgur is problematic these days, and my system is too slow to reliably load anything from my telephone.

thane, youre right that a 1960s british 650 would be slow with a watsonian, but you know, those were the bikes they were designed for, except for vincents. i dont think they could do 50 mph when they were built. its not an issue where i live anyway, as i have no traffic and not even a paved road within three miles of my house. 

the BSA mounts would be an issue, though. the duplex frame is spindly, the lower front motor mount is shrouded by the exhaust, and the tinware and cases are closely fit to the frame tubes, leaving little clearance for brackets. triumph hung all their bolts and mounts out in the wind, while BSA was more concerned with keeping things tidy.

a BSA subframe could attach to the lower motor mount through-bolt, the brackets for the centerstand, and then maybe a frame tube back near the passenger pegs. it would likely continue up near the steering head, because the front BSA front downtubes look like theyre only 1-1/8 inches.

alternatively, i do have a 60s triumph roller in the middle of a big pile of leftover parts down in the shop. i was intending to build a track bike, but it would bolt right into the factory watsonian mounts that i already have. it wouldnt be any faster than the BSA, but would be easier to put together. so thats another option.

Hmm time for a bit of cat skinning.

Which way shall we do it this time.

Nice Watsonian.  Looks a slightly older version of mine. 

(It's on a modern 850 Guzzi)

Probably in better condition.  Mine had over 40 holes  drilled in it for whatever reasons. 

What's that bit sticking out by the steering head on the Beeza?

Steering damper?

It would be simple enough to make maybe a 2 piece subframe with a bit of DOM tube a pipe bender and a welder.

One piece better. 

Depends if you know someone with skills and gear that's willing to use them for a reasonable consideration.

Mind having 2 bikes on the road is better than one.

i wondered at that thing on tbe steering head too until i remembered what it was. it was a fabric tie down loop from when i last trailered it. thetes another on tbe back.

pictures of your watsonian? this is the first one ive seen since i was a kid long ago in a galaxy far away.

im really leaning towards tbe triumph, mostly because i need to use up the parts and i already have factory mounts. no title on tbe motorcycle frame, though, so thats currently an added US$400 to get straightened out.

Kevin, here is a picture of Bruce's Watsonian sidecar, attached to his Moto Guzzi, located in extremely Western Australia.

holy shit what kind of fiat is that?

and the sidecar looks nice as well. mine mounts on the right, which is a royal pita with kickstart machines

That's one of them new fangled overhead cam machines. 4 wheel brakes and all. So sophisticated it has 12 volt electrics... including a self starter. Even has vacuum wiper.. single.

Other then that Fiat made these from 1924 through 1929. 

It's a Fiat 509 spider. 

3 speed crash box so is fun to drive as they did back then.

The big question when I saw it advertised was.. I wonder if I can fit in it.

It's a process bt yes.

The Watsonian is very similar to yours but looks way different because of the body moldings.

It appears a bit bullet shaped but isn't.  It apparently had the full wrap around sceen  covering what is the boot..(trunk) but the guy I got it from had an older one and made a new fibreglass boot lid then fitted his old screen and fold up top.

I found its a bit of challeng for the wife to get in and out of and she is smallish. 

For me it's way too small.

Looks great though.

The wheel is Moto Guzzi same as the bike front.

thats odd. the watsonian website shows the 1968 GP as the only model with the octagonal molding, and it didnt have a flip up windscreen.

lots of customizing apparently.

the guy i bought mine from spent a lot of time cleaning up and painting the body, and it literally looks almost brand new. no windscreen, though watsonian still has monaco wi dscreens for sale on tbeir website, for a princely sum.

so you have a goose wheel on yours? what kind of mounting do you have?

It's a complete home built suspension set-up using an air dampened air shock from a BMW . Rides nice but doesn't help handling much.

Somebody pointed out recently a sheet of Kevlar is easy to wrap around to make your own screen.  Been busy messing with an Aussie built 64 Dodge AT4 114 ex ambulance. The V9 build in the Other sidecar site.

1964 dodge at4? beautiful old tanks.

my dream truck is a 1941 dodge wc12 weapons carrier. i wont live long enough. another story

ive thought about just warming a piece of quarter inch perspex for a windscreen. but you know, this car is so original i feel obligated to at least invesigate the original setup. theres a lower and upper metal trim. im guessing watsonian ordered like 200 back in 1968 and have 12 left, which is why they will still build a monaco windscreen. or something like that. havent talked to them yet. i can cough up the money if i eat lean for a while longer.

Kevin, if I may suggest, now that TSC/DMC/Watsonian has recently become a Watsonian dealer for the USA, maybe you could contact Kent Silk, the owner of TSC/DMC/Watsonian, in Donie, Texas, and ask them if they could import one of those windshields you need, rather than going through Watsonian in the UK, as a individual private hominid.

Possibly.....TSC/DMC/Watsonian can get it shipped to them as a commercial order, at a better price than that you could buy it from Watsonian.

And BTW, at todays' Northwest Sidecar pilots gathering in Elma, Washington, one of the sidecarists there has a Watsonian Gran Prix 700 attached to his Kawi 2000.

that is an excellent idea. i will do that. 

i had forgotten that watsonian had an american manufacturer now. the watsonian price for that windscreen is 330 pounds, which is US$417, not counting any shipping for a what would be a sizeable parcel.

the GP700 is a beautiful unit, too. also pretty expensive and 100 kilos. i havent weighed the monaco yet, but my current options for pulling it are all 60s and 70s british twins. i do have a 97 buell with lots of torque, but its got an unconventional tube frame.

no more money in the motorcycle budget at the moment.

The bikes you have are the ones the Monaco was designed for.  

To be used at a less frenetic pace. 

Should be very enjoyable so long as you keep from becoming a hood ornament on a too fast road. 

My Guzzi has maybe an extra 20 neddies?  

Small ones at that.

Our freeway speeds are lower than yours so 100-110 kph is viable and a little faster is achievable.

Not up to FM's standard but no matter. 

Now a different  matter that may matter.

My windscreen is I think responsible for a fair amount of wind drag. 

It is also designed to keep the wife happy. 

I:E warm and cosy with the hood up.

Mine loves it as it fits her needs to a T.

So again that will suit a slower pace. 

up until now i have never heard of a sidecar on any of my type of junk that did much better than 45 mph. ive always assumed that 50 mph was aspirational. i had a 750 triumph trident until i blew it up, which would have worked, but the triples blow if you dont watch the oil pressure and i missed out. what i have now are mostly sedate by modern standards. but thats okay.

elsewhere i race a fast 60 year old triumph land speed machine. i get all my speed adrenaline out on the race course on my belly at 135 mph. not much left for the public roads.

but the huuuuuge watsonian windscreens are indeed unique. giant sails.

and the hoods like yours are special too. apparently no longer available? where did yours come from? original?as a kid i remember the fully enclosed watsonian-style sidecars on the roads in malaya. stodgy but dry in the monsoons. always wanted one.

still wouldnt mind, tbh.