Been thinking about sidecars for quite a while; did some research. I'm a touring guy - just sold my 2004 BMW R1150R. I'm concerned about tire mileage. I'm told a motorcycle rear tire won't go much over 3K miles on a rig; that would be a deal breaker. I like the Urals which have flat car type tires, but a ride that can't keep up with traffic is another deal breaker. Rigs for sale ads often mention steering modifications but don't describe rear wheel mods that allow for flat faced tires. Is that because it's so common and thus not wort mentioning, or is it difficult and thus rare ? Any thoughts appreciated. I would like to join the fraternity, but want to do it right.
Car tires are relatively simple to mount to motorcycle rear rims. If you have your own tire mounting equipment, that is. Many MC shops won't put a car tire on a MC rim and almost no car tire shops will put do it, either. Both will cite some sort of "legal" liability which is nonsense and fabrication. The main reason for going "dark side" with an auto tire on the rear is increased load capacity and spreading the larger weight load over a larger contact patch.
As for steering modifications, because of the extra weight and redistribution of forces acting on a sidecar rig, changing steering geometry is helpful for making the rig easier to steer, especially since you're not leaning the bike to steer it anymore. Raking the front end reduces "trail" (I'll let someone else explain that one), reducing the effort required to make the front wheel turn in the direction intended.
As for power, now you've entered the realm of sizing the car to the bike. Too big a tug on too small a bike and the "dead weight" is driving the show. Too light a car on too big a bike and it'll be squirrelly and prone to lifting off like a gossamer butterfly at every provocation. Any bike big enough to have a heavy, large car will likely be able to take a car tire on the rear if you can find something with the correct size profile. This takes some research and measurement because not all tire sizes are created equal. Not all tread patterns are suitable for pusher use.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to go digging in the technical subforum and learn the many, many, many iterations of bike, car and tires that have been assembled and to inquire of others how one combination or another might be effective for your needs.
In any case, you're going to hear the same advice: buy a well set-up rig and ride it for a while. When it's served it's training purpose, sell it to another new rider for the same amount you paid and upgrade to your "dream" setup.
Happy trails!
Illegitemi non carborundum est!
I refuse to be......I say, I refuse to be....a contrarian to my Good friend and colleague from Nebraska, but I don't have a problem getting my local Les Schwab tire store to mount a Car tire onto my motorcycle rear wheel.
One of those.... it's a matter of who you know.
Two Million Mile Rider
Exploring the World in Comfort
Indeed, who you know. My "local" indy MC shop will mount a car tire, but the tire shop won't touch anything MC.
Illegitemi non carborundum est!
Seems there's more to this post than tire mileage.
Though wear is greatest on the drive wheel by far so a hard wearing flat profile car is best suited if that particular size is available.
My Guzzi has 16" wheels so I was able to source a suitable car tire that fitted the rear.
The front has 22,000 klm so far and still has tread. 7,000 with the sidecar..
The chair wheel is a motorcycle rear in 16" doing fine at 7,000 klm.
You like BMW? Or are other marques of interest?
Gearing is an issue with shaft driven bikes sometimes.
Hence I run a very low profile rear.
Not something I particularly like.
A fine well sorted 2nd hand machine has major advantages.
Much thanks gentleman (I realize I'm using the term loosely.) for the thoughtful information and advice. There are options. I'm not brand loyal. So.... it seems the thing to do is: find a rig I like and research if a rear car tire can be fitted. What I don't understand is: why do so many owners, who put much money and love into their rigs, run with motorcycle rear tires? Don't they go far? My last long ride was from St Louis to the Ontario lake country and back. I prefer to go a scenic, very round about way; transversing greater Toronto is not fun. Anyway....if 3K is about how far a rear tire can go, I'd have to change tires during the trip.
I think that if I was selling my rig and it had a car pusher I would definitely mention it in the ad since a car pusher is a strong selling point. But, if you see an ad and it doesn't mention the car pusher you can't automatically assume there isn't one. Some people just aren't very good at writing ads!Been thinking about sidecars for quite a while; did some research. I'm a touring guy - just sold my 2004 BMW R1150R. I'm concerned about tire mileage. I'm told a motorcycle rear tire won't go much over 3K miles on a rig; that would be a deal breaker. I like the Urals which have flat car type tires, but a ride that can't keep up with traffic is another deal breaker. Rigs for sale ads often mention steering modifications but don't describe rear wheel mods that allow for flat faced tires. Is that because it's so common and thus not wort mentioning, or is it difficult and thus rare ? Any thoughts appreciated. I would like to join the fraternity, but want to do it right.
But I agree with you, Bogdan, that a car pusher is almost a necessity if you plan to do long distance touring.
My esteemed colleagues have covered most of the important stuff, but left out that if the motorcycle has a 15" rear wheel, it is not compatible with a car pusher. 14's and 16's and 17's are fine, but not 15's. That said, finding car tires that will fit a motorcycle rim is not the same thing as finding a car tire that will fit. The bike hard parts need to provide enough clearance for the tire not to rub.
My suggestion is that if you are serious about getting into sidecars, keep this thread alive. When you see a rig for sale that you like but are unsure if it has a car pusher or can be modified to take a car pusher, post up about it here. The gang will be happy to chime in.
Hey Bogdan, welcome to the crazy world of hacks and opinions! For what it is worth:
My Honda Africa Twin rig (CRF1100) has the same 4.5" x 18" rim laced to all three locations, sealed as tubeless. This is my preference, since this allows me to carry one size unmounted spare tire that could be mounted to any of the three locations in a pinch. I wasn't smart enough to figure out a good way to run the same wheel/hub combo at all three locations on the Africa Twin, to be able to carry a mounted spare, like the Ural or some BMW's do.
It is a relatively heavy rig (1,050 lbs wet, as it stands) that I flog vigorously on highspeed pavement and do lots of power slides around sweepers on gravel roads.
It has been known to occasionally crawl rocks with friends here. I like the same tire at all three locations, the Mitas E07 Dakar series, maybe called 50/50 onroad/offroad tire. It has some decent size tread blocks and a reasonably soft compound for dirt riding.
Pictured below:
I have about 34,000 miles on the rig, since built new. I keep pretty decent records about what I do to it at what date and milage. Since new:
1. I have gone through two front tires, average about 17,000 miles each. The one shown just went on at 33,867 miles. One was an E07+ with a little larger blocks and softer compound.
2. I have gone through 6 1/2 rear tires in that time frame, with the average being 5,262 miles per rear tire. Lowest that I remember was 3,748 miles, with the exception of one that I tore the sidewall out on at 1,026 miles, going over some junk in the desert. Longest wearing was 7,500 miles, when I first got the rig and was scared to drive it at it's full potential. Two were E07+ tires with larger blocks and softer compound. I generally run the rear tires down to where I see cords. There is 8mm of rubber and 3 more belts between air and air, once the first layer of cords it breached. This can go another 800 miles before going flat, kind of a limp home mode.
3. I just replaced the hack tire for the first time at 30,551 miles. Could have gone a lot longer, but it looked kinda bad to strangers and the peanut gallery.
I think if I behaved myself and didn't cruise a little over most speed limits (speed limits are 75mph on AZ interstates), didn't slide around corners, and stayed off sharp rocks, I would get about 8,000 miles to one of these tires. Harder street oriented tires might go 10 to 12K, but really, what fun would that be?
My solution was to just buy a Rabaconda Street tire changer and do my own tires (and a select group of friends' tires) myself.
I have practiced enough over the years with spoons to know that if I have to swap a tire on a trip, I could do it in a Motel 6 parking lot or alongside a dirt road. I carry plugs, patches and a spare tire, so reasonably sure I could make it home from about any trip I could undertake, without having to source a tire along the way.
From my reading, some people get pretty decent milage out of a car tire. I have heard rumors of 20k+. Some, well, not so much. I think you could easily install a car tire with the Rabaconda unit on about any appropriate sized MC rim. The sidewalls are a lot softer on a car tire than the Mitas E07 Dakar series units I use.
I did not go that route because I wanted the same tire at all three locations and was not as interested in having a wide flat tire on the front.
If you are looking at primarily street riding, a car tire would be great, but don't let that completely sway your decision. Lot's of ways to make it happen, if you find a great deal on the right rig, and then want to retrofit.
You will get great advice on the forum, an then there is mine! 😉
Much thanks gentleman (I realize I'm using the term loosely.) for the thoughtful information and advice. There are options. I'm not brand loyal. So.... it seems the thing to do is: find a rig I like and research if a rear car tire can be fitted. What I don't understand is: why do so many owners, who put much money and love into their rigs, run with motorcycle rear tires? Don't they go far? My last long ride was from St Louis to the Ontario lake country and back. I prefer to go a scenic, very round about way; transversing greater Toronto is not fun. Anyway....if 3K is about how far a rear tire can go, I'd have to change tires during the trip.
Bogdan, pay very little attention to those that claim only 3,000 miles from the rear tire of their sidecar rig...that is an anamoly.
Most of us get double, triple, or quadruple that number of miles from the rear tire on our bikes, when used as sidecar tugs.
A great example of someone that knows his tires, and how to get mileage out of them is that wanker that posted above, some inhabitant of Skunk Hollow, Sir Ben Franklin. He goes through tires more often that most sidecarists change their socks, but he also drives his rig through serious off-road terrain, in the middle of the night.
I also get relatively higher mileage out of my sidecar rig tires, but I am very careful (read that as wise) as to my choice of tires, and am very experienced (read that as smart) about what tire pressures to run in each and every tire, so I can easily pull 15,000 out of a Car tire on the rear wheel of my Goldwing 1800's, and 25k+ out of the front tire, and 30k+ out of the sidecar tire.
Like the choice of oil used in the engines, tire mileage will vary.....greatly.
Seriously, LOOK for a already put together sidecar rig that tickles your fancy, then post it on here for us to comment on it, and we will fill you with knowledge of the goods things, and bad things, so that you are more enlightened before making a purchase. Then stay with us, as we help you along the way with your first sidecar rig.
Two Million Mile Rider
Exploring the World in Comfort
If tires are going 3k, that's one per oil change. Not a good ratio in my book. Not to mention that they are so much more expensive than car tires.
Illegitemi non carborundum est!
I think "use case scenario" would dictate the best way to go, and expected mileage.
Seems there are many who install car tires on motorcycle rims. My R1100 GS based rig came with a car tire on the stock motorcycle rim. That tire had at least 8,000+ miles. Maybe as much as 11,000 miles (previous owner records aren't clear when it was installed).
Tens of thousands of trouble free miles have been racked up by a lot of sidecarists with this combination. That wrote, a car tire and motorcycle tire have different bead dimensions, and the car tire doesn't fit quite correctly on a motorcycle rim. Also certain rim diameters don't match between a car and motorcycle (I can't remember for certain which diameter is an issue, but it is well documented). The most correct way to do this is either with a hybrid wheel assembly (mating an automotive rim to the motorcycle hub/disc), or using an adapter to run a car wheel, with the proper offset to maintain proper geometry on the bike.
I replaced the car tire on my rig with an off road-centric tire, because this rig sees some pretty aggressive ATV and Jeep trails.
Then did a bit over 4,000 miles on a road trip adventure. 😆 It still has about 1,000-ish miles left. This mileage includes a few power slides, and emergency braking on asphalt, as well as some aggressive off road miles. Had I chose a slightly more street oriented tire (like the Dunlop Trailmax Mission), that mileage would increase significantly. But off road performance would suffer.
Horses for courses. 😎 Or should that be "horse shoes" for courses? 🤔
Hold my keyboard and watch this! 🙃
Tire dealers and bike shops (that you aren't best friends with) won't mount car tires on motorcycle rimes because of the different shaped beads on the tires and rims. I use a car wheel and tire and while on the final leg of doing the Heart of the West Adventure route, I needed a tire. I was able to call ahead to a Less Schwab in Rawlins to get a tire ordered to arrive when we did. When I pulled up to the shop with my sidecar the Manager came out and said he can't mount the tire for me. After I showed him that I had car wheels not motorcycle wheels he had no problem.
With BMW (& perhaps other shaft drive bikes?) a simple adapter plate makes mounting the car wheel a breeze.
