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(@miles-ladue)
Posts: 1258
Famed Member
 

Dane, the cracked frame should not affect your insurance rates, as you are not claiming an accident. This is vehicle frame failure, making the vehicle unusable, and unsafe .

Your insurance can either pay to have the frame replaced, or total the bike.

But it should not be listed as an accident, and be counted against you.

Two Million Mile Rider...All 7 Continents
Exploring the World in Comfort

 
Posted : March 17, 2025 5:42 pm
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Well, spent at least part of the day considering options.

Finally decided to have a go at gluing the broken frame back together with some gusseting.

I think if I bought a new frame, I would just be out the money and time to move everything over to it. It would not be any stronger than mine was, originally.

I'm under the delusion that I can make this one just a little stronger than OEM, at least, and maybe tailor my riding speed just a little, and end up with a few years and a bunch of rides out of it, without breaking the bank.

Decided against totaling the rig with insurance; the bastards hiked my rates when I just claimed a rock damage to a windshield a few years ago, so I imagine a claim with a totaled vehicle would drive it up on all my vehicles. Maybe not, but just not interested in experimenting on that, and totaling it out would still probably bring in less than $25k to work with. ($15k accessory coverage + assume the bike is around $10k)

So, being the eternal optimist, I decided to tear off the rest of the crap that prevents the valve cover from coming off, and check the valves.

It's quite the stack of stuff to pull off. Decided to drain the cooling system and pull the radiators, as well, since they are in the way for the welding and it was time for new coolant.

upload_2025-3-18_1-4-0.png

 

upload_2025-3-18_1-5-56.png

 

Was pleased with the inside of the engine. 41,000 miles in not nice riding conditions; there were no deposits in the galleys (Full Syn oil, every 8,000 miles or so.)

image

Honda uses a somewhat unique system for the valve train. It is a single overhead cam, but not in the sense of like the old CB750s gen 1. With this engine, the cam operates the intake valves directly, with adjustment shims in between. The exhaust valves are activated with roller tappets that adjust in the old school way with a lock nut adjuster at the tip.

I was pleased that the intakes were all in spec., so no shims were needed. This was the first valve check, since new, at 41,000 miles. Three of the exhausts were in spec, one required loosening by 004" to bring it into spec

upload_2025-3-18_1-12-59.png

 

NGK Iridium plugs (from factory) show the typical lean tune that the OEMs are doing these days, but were in like new condition and still gapped in spec, so decided they could go back in, with a little antisieze on the threads.

upload_2025-3-18_1-15-17.png

 

Inside of the valve cover was squeaky clean and rubber gasket still had some life to it, so wiped it off, stuck a tiny bit of black RTV on the halfmoon divot in the gasket, and reassembled:

upload_2025-3-18_1-18-8.png

 

Now, with the clean billl of health for the engine, I was ready to complete the goal I set for the evening:

I wanted to straighten out the steering head and tack it in place, before fiddling with grinding out old welds and powdercoat for the "real repair" over the coming days.

upload_2025-3-18_1-21-12.png

Stuck one of my aluminum alignment rails to the front wheel and back wheel with clamps, with the weight off the front wheel. Got it to where there was no tension on the aluminum alignment rail, then let just a little bit of the weight back down on the front, until the broken frame section aligned.

Clamped it in position and tacked the right side:

upload_2025-3-18_1-24-31.png
 

Then pulled the clamp and tacked the left side, just on top.

upload_2025-3-18_1-25-42.png

 

Stuff is now lined up to where I can move the handlebars around for grinding and welding down the vertically cracked gussets.  Yeah, laugh all you want at the welding...  I was pleased to notice that the bracket I had welded to the front of the steering head a couple of years ago had not cracked or fallen off, though, so there is hope.

https://www.africatwinforum.com/attachments/1742287675285-png.93490 /" alt="Image" data-src="/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/ https://www.africatwinforum.com/attachments/1742287675285-png.93490 /" data-zoom-target="1" data-url="" />

upload_2025-3-18_1-27-40.png

 

Grinding out the welds and powdercoat is likely going to involve a dremel for some sections. Should keep me entertained for a while.

Yeah, I recognize it is a fools errand, but I have the time to fool with it, at the moment, anyway, and I am reasonably confident that I can make it stronger than the factory did, albeit heavier.

Besides, isn't the definition of a fools errand owning and operating a sidecar rig?

I have a pretty good idea of what terrain and speed will break the rig, now, so maybe I can scrape another three years of fun out of this mess. We will see...

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 4:02 am
sheath, Brstr, FlyingMonkeys and 1 people reacted
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
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Topic starter
 

@miles-ladue Yep, don't trust them though...  I should just drop the comp. coverage on the rig, but have delayed in doing that.

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 4:23 am
sheath, Brstr, FlyingMonkeys and 1 people reacted
Thane Lewis
(@thane-lewis)
Posts: 650
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When the frame finally does fail permanently, you'll get a lot more from parting out the bike than you'd get from any settlement.  AMHIK.

Illegitemi non carborundum est!

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 8:05 am
(@miles-ladue)
Posts: 1258
Famed Member
 

Dane, I "LIKE" where you are going with this project. I think you have made a wise decision, and I applaud you for doing it.

8,000 miles between oil changes, even with full synthetic oil....are you crazy ?  (don't answer that)

I use nothing but full synthetic oils in any of my modern engine vehicles, and only Mobil 1....but I stick with 5,000 miles for every oil & filter change.

But hey....you keep doing YOU, as it has been proven to be successful.

friday

And the NGK Iridium sparking pins (that is what we called them in the days of wooden spoked wheels)...smart decision to reinstall those, as 41k miles on those is nuttin'.

Two Million Mile Rider...All 7 Continents
Exploring the World in Comfort

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 8:37 am
sheath, Ben Franklin, Brstr and 1 people reacted
(@brstr)
Posts: 392
Prominent Member
 

Well Ben your threads have demonstrated the concept of "never give up", admirably. 

As well as providing lots of entertainment. 

It's a steel frame. 

So like you say if you weld it and gusset a bit it should well last another 50k.

I reckon it will last longer.

Have a it.

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 1:32 pm
Thane Lewis
(@thane-lewis)
Posts: 650
Moderator
 

Who knew it had Ural heritage?

Illegitemi non carborundum est!

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 1:50 pm
sheath, Ben Franklin, Brstr and 1 people reacted
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Here is kind of the general frame repair plan:

Some thoughts on gusseting/bracing, kind of sequentially, after the cracks are welded up:

1. Hot form a 3mm x 50mm piece of flat stock to fit nicely around the curves of the inside of the "V", something like this, weld where accessible on the top and sides, maybe a couple of small plug welds towards the rear of the bike, maybe 20mm behind the welded crack:

upload_2025-3-18_11-52-52.png

Next 2nd step: Weld in a piece of 3mm wall thickness box section, 25 mm square in on top of step 1 gusset, on the inside:

upload_2025-3-18_12-0-28.png

Step 3: Form and attach side gussets out of 3mm flat stock.

upload_2025-3-18_12-8-17.png

Final step before paint, fab a wrap around top gusset out of 3mm x 75mm flat stock and form it to fit over the top of the prior steps. Probably a few plug welds, and some overlap of the crack welds on the sides.

upload_2025-3-18_12-18-59.png

 
 
Posted : March 18, 2025 3:10 pm
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

These are some crude sketches on what I am thinking for a fixed telelever sort of A arm that would pick up the side and front load force vectors and move "some" of the force to the lower subframe:

Regarding a "rigid telelever" to support side loads and take some of the impact loads from hitting rocks and ledges too fast:

The laser dot on the fender mount is the point that the Leading link pivots around, vertically, i.e. shine a light through the steering stem, and this is where it hits:

upload_2025-3-18_12-25-58.png

This is what a side view might look sort of look like:

upload_2025-3-18_12-37-15.png

Looking at it from the front, the "A" arm would be fixed to the lower subframe mount where it clamps to the frame down tube. The rear cross member could replace the miserable little piece of plumbing pipe that the old DMC in WA fabbed the front top strut mount to. Maybe make it out of box section, 4mm wall thickness or so. The bearing would be centered on the above laser dot, so the LL could pivot around on it.

This should transfer some of the side load and front impact load forces down to the lower subframe, taking some of the load off the top steering head.

upload_2025-3-18_12-48-22.png

Overall, should be pretty cheap and easy to make and test out. I don't see a downside, other than yet another couple of pounds. Has to be narrow enough at the bearing point to not block movement of the LL down tubes, but there seems to be room.

Not a super clean solution, but may extend the useful life of the rig beyond not doing it.

upload_2025-3-18_12-56-20.png

Replace front strut mount with A arm brace that LL brace would pivot on.

upload_2025-3-18_13-1-53.png

 
 
Posted : March 18, 2025 3:12 pm
sheath, Brstr, Thane Lewis and 1 people reacted
(@brstr)
Posts: 392
Prominent Member
 

So that like a 3rd steering head bearing?

With suitable bracing.

Alignment will be the thing.

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 8:49 pm
sheath and FlyingMonkeys reacted
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

@brstr Yep.  Having it lower should absorb some of the force that is currently taken by the two bearings in the steering head.

I think if I use a laser to pinpoint the location and maybe leave space to put a washer or two under the A arm mount, if I need to adjust, is should line up ok.

We will see.  Currently just focused on fixing and strengthening the top, but this will be a close second.

 
Posted : March 18, 2025 11:53 pm
sheath and FlyingMonkeys reacted
(@brstr)
Posts: 392
Prominent Member
 

Perhaps drop the bottom bearing down in a tube extension? 

If there's room? 

Then triangulate it into the frame?

The further apart those 2 bearings are the less stress involved.

 
Posted : March 19, 2025 3:33 am
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

A friend over on the ADV hacks forum asked why I thought the frame failed... here is my reply:

 

Will, as I ponder what I see, I have two theories:

 

1. The heavy chair, when cornering at relatively high speed on twisty pavement, pushes sideways hard on the bike. To avoid ditches, I steer to balance that force and maintain a line. 

 

I think it is about the same as a giant hand grabbing the front wheel from the contact patch and pulling hard to the right or left, which twists the steering head in the frame, and ultimately fatigued it to the point of failure.

 

I had noticed that when I pushed on the nose of the sidecar from the side, the bike moved, but not the wheel, as an indication of something not right. Now, with just my weld tacks in place, you can shove hard on the sidecar nose and get no lateral movement.

 

2. The other theory is when I hit a ditch kind of hard a couple of years ago, back when I snapped the instrument panel mount off the front of the steering head, that it also started the cracks in the frame under the powder coating, and they just got progressively worse until there was enough movement to notice.

 

I suppose it could be a combination of both theory 1 and theory 2, as well.

 

That is where I came up with the goofy idea of copying, sort of, a BMW Telelever that would connect to the LL with a new brace, and take up some of both the side load and any brake load or impact from front wheel hitting stuff.

 

The brace would not have to pivot vertically, since the LL tubes don't go up and down. It would just need a pivot bearing at the right spot and a brace going between the fork legs, directly under the steering stem center point.

 

Not a cure all, but I think if some of the forces could feed down into the subframe, vs. all of it going to the steering head, then it might last longer.

 

A few additional gussets on the steering head, over and around the repairs might help some, as well, if I can not just create another fault line for it to crack on.

 

Here is one side (left) before fooling with it, yellow highlight is the crack:

 

upload_2025-3-19_1-45-3.png

 

Here is about where I got tired and called it quits for the evening.

 

upload_2025-3-19_1-47-15.png

 

Not pretty, but I seem to be getting good penetration, (from as many times as I punched through that thin stuff!)

 

I think if I gusset as shown in a couple of earlier posts, it will be "pretty strong" and likely stronger than uncle Sochiro shipped it out of Japan.

 

Hell, who knows, maybe I need to slow down a little. But what is the fun of that? 

 
Posted : March 19, 2025 4:10 am
sheath, Brstr, Thane Lewis and 2 people reacted
(@ben-franklin)
Posts: 278
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Wasn't a terribly exciting day in the shop, but made a little progress.

Burned through what was left of a tank of Argon daubing metal around the fractures... we won't exactly call it welding, but I think they are now stuck together pretty solid.

Day started here:
upload_2025-3-19_21-58-8.png

Ended here, with the right side getting "done" as well. Kinda boogery welds, but stacked material up around that top, thick gusset, and ground it smooth to join to the tubing over the top, where it cracked, before. Should spread the stress a little, vs the sharp transition from gusset to tube, that was factory.
upload_2025-3-19_21-59-14.png

Access to the chair side was a bitch. Made the executive decision to pull the brake line and parking brake cable away from the frame with bungee cords, rather than disconnecting and removing. Front brakes are not much fun to bleed, through the ABS unit, so decided that a few contortions were worth while, while welding.
upload_2025-3-19_22-1-21.png

Went out and picked up a sheet of 1.6mm thick steel to fab up the main gusset with. Have some 6mm straps laying around that will make a few additional braces, per the pics a few posts earlier.

Off to pick up another tank of Argon in the morning.

Anyone making a living welding weird shit in obnoxious locations is earning their pay; I'm beat!

 
Posted : March 20, 2025 12:26 am
sheath, Thane Lewis, Brstr and 1 people reacted
(@miles-ladue)
Posts: 1258
Famed Member
 

I like it, I love it, I want some more of it !  Cool  

Two Million Mile Rider...All 7 Continents
Exploring the World in Comfort

 
Posted : March 20, 2025 12:31 am
sheath and Brstr reacted
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