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Hello, howdy, newbie here

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(@oldroadie)
Posts: 11
Topic starter
 

Hello everybody, old rider just took delivery of a new rig with less than 400 miles on it. I've beeen lurking a bit and reading up on rigs and set ups to prepare for this new adventure. The bike is a 1974 R90 with under 40K miles and the Velorex 563 has under 400. How do I add a photo? I have my own picture hosting server and the photo's URL is

It needs some serious alignment work and I'd guess a suspension tweak because the ride to the DMV was just short of terrifying. Fun mixed with terror and a huge wrestling match. I need better battens (straighter than the stuff i had at hand) to check the toe in but it looked to be around 2" last night and the bike leans 3°-4° toward the car. From what I've read here both of those are way off. Massive wobble when engaging first gear and pretty good head shake at a little over 20 mph. Felt like it was pulling right at 45mph. Not too much wobble when slowing and it stops fairly straight...the car wheel brake isn't hooked up but I'm thinking bmw drum brakes would make it a reasonable idea.

I'm sure I'll have many more questions.

 
Posted : July 15, 2015 8:45 am
(@jaydmc)
Posts: 1795
 

As no one has posted, One thing to take a close look at is it looks like your sidecar was mounted with the Velorex "universal" type mounts, these mounts tend to damage the frame on air head BMW's as the frame tubing is a lot thinner then one would think it would be. Also the Velorex lower front mount assembly really does not allow for the proper setting of wheel lead, I can not tell for sure in your photo but it looks like you have to much wheel lead. I am attaching alignment instructions so you can check this. The way you attach things like photo's and the instructions I am attaching is to finish the post, then edit the post and then you can click on add attachments.
You should also take a look at the lower rear frame clamp on the sidecar its self, these are known to slip, at this link you can get an idea of what we do to deal with these http://www.dmcsidecars.com/the-result-of-improper-sidecar-mounting-and-the-proper-fix/ many people will also either cross drill and bolt them or weld them down.

One of the reasons your ride was terrifying is that your steering inputs are opposite of what they are as a two wheeled motorcycle. If you can take a class ergreenmotorcycletraining.org/ or at least get a copy of the book bike David Hough "Driving a sidecar outfit" white horse press offers it as do we. Do the exercises in the book. Another issue is that your steering is stock, when ever you convert to three wheels you are going to end up with heavy steering unless you reduce the amount of trail on the front end of the bike.
To hook up the sidecar brake one way to do it is to make a clamp that holds the Velorex brake cable housing to two of the bolts that hold the final drive onto the swing arm. Then take a 5/16 thread coupler, (a thread coupler looks like a really long nut) drill a hole in the side of it such that it will slide over your brake rod for the bike. Then when you up a bolt in it when the bolt is tight it is clamping on the brake rod. You then want to put a small chain with three links over the nut and the other end the "hook" on the Velorex brake cable such that when you apply your rear brake, the thread couple is pulled which in turn pulls the chain which pulls the Velorex brake cable.
We of course make the sub frame for your bike but do not make a kit for the brake. We can also order you in a leading link front end to lower the steering effort.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

Attached files

BASIC SIDECAR INSTRUCTIONS.doc (388.5 KB) 

 
Posted : July 15, 2015 10:42 am
(@al-olme)
Posts: 1711
 

Jay,

Thanks for the very informative post. I appreciate your tech contributions. It looks like you're going to show at the BMW MOA Rally in Billings next week. I'll see you there.

 
Posted : July 15, 2015 11:08 am
(@oldroadie)
Posts: 11
Topic starter
 

Thanks for the reply Jay, I appreciate you for taking the time to respond and the instruction sheet. I had a rig in the late eighties so I was already aware of the vastly differing control techniques apply to driving, and I was also expected heavy steering since its not a leading link. Hal Kendall's operator manual plus the Ural guide were good refresher reading. I wasn't expecting the massive head shake at take off or engaging third gear; it was a classic tank slapper. I was expecting it when it happened again and just muscled my way thru. I've got some measuring to do and some bolts and nuts to undo.

And here are the results:

car wheel lead = 13 1/2". Really good eye Jay for one cell phone photo!
Bike leans in 1/4"
Toe in = 3 3/16"

Bike wheelbase = 58"
Neck to axle = 14 1/2 "
Arc = 3 3/4"

I might as well just disconnect the chair and start over. It truly does explain why the previous owner rode under 400 miles in three years.

 
Posted : July 16, 2015 6:59 am
(@snakeoil)
Posts: 52
 

I thought my toe-in was bad at 1 inch. That rig is more like a v-plow than a vehicle with that toe.

I know aluminum has gone way up in price. But I have two 10 ft pieces of 2 inch box beam that I use for measuring toe. Bungee or Quick Clamp it to the wheels. If you have a Metal Supermarket near you, give them a call. Might have what you need. Others have mentioned using some type of fence post sold in Home Depot. Not sure how rigid it is.

regards,
Rob

 
Posted : July 18, 2015 3:49 pm
(@Hack__n)
Posts: 4723
 

I have been using 2- 10' lengths of 1"x1"x.120" wall square tubing for over 25 years, placed on 4"x4" blocks.
Lots cheaper than aluminum.

Lonnie

 
Posted : July 18, 2015 3:59 pm
(@oldschool_iscool)
Posts: 468
 

Check out the home improvement stores. I found some 8' lengths of track used to hang conduit. Light weight, rigid, cheap and hold their shape.

I've also heard of someone who uses 8' fluorescent light tubes tho I'd worry about breakage with those. Maybe he said the plastic tubes used to protect fluorescent bulbs??

 
Posted : July 18, 2015 5:31 pm
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
Guest
 

I have 2-10' 1" square tubing that Lonnie is talking about. We used them at the Monumental Rally for the experts panel and for lack of something better to provide blocks to raise them we used styrofoam cups from the coffee area. Whatever works. The steel tubing is readily available. The guys who were our "experts" had used 8' fluorescent tubes but didn't like the fragility. I'm not sure you need to start all over but the measurements you have are the reason why the rig handles so badly.
Jay mentioned a leading link front end. I adapted a /2 Earles front end to my R90. Of course it needed a steering damper which made it steer hard again. There has to be a better way than VW dampers. I used the a VW bus damper.
Jay: I will ad my thanks to Al's and will see you at Billings next week.

 
Posted : July 19, 2015 6:19 am
(@jaydmc)
Posts: 1795
 

Thank you for the feed back, At Billings I will be putting on a sidecar seminar. One thing I have used in a pinch for checking toe are 2 X 4s' take your measurement's turn them over and take your measurements again then average them this way as no 2 X 4 is straight you end up with a good reading. Or you can hammer a nail into each end of the 2 X 4 and put a string between them, the string will be straight.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

 
Posted : July 19, 2015 6:36 am
(@oldroadie)
Posts: 11
Topic starter
 

I picked up a couple of MDF battens at the hardware big box that are really straight, I will flip those and average the results. I've finished the calculations based on Peter Smith's nice write up and I've got my baseline numbers to work off. Apparently the wheel is currently 6" too forward so I'll need to remove the chair and reset the mounts before attaching it again.

 
Posted : July 19, 2015 8:31 am
(@Hack__n)
Posts: 4723
 

I have three of the long dampers that most of the sidecar manufacturers use and one Harley damper (looks like VW ones) for sale.

Lonnie
nwsidecar@aol.com

Attached files

 
Posted : July 19, 2015 11:29 am
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
Guest
 

Jay:
I could bring my pieces of 1" square tubing. I am coming in an RV so I canpack them. Let me know where the seminar will be. I will be monitoring the forum.

 
Posted : July 19, 2015 12:35 pm
(@jaydmc)
Posts: 1795
 

This is going to be more of a Q&A I am not planning on hands nor do I know if the room we will be in that I could get a bike into it. Assuming I could I would be willing to critique the mounts and set up but not do any work on it as that would not be fair to the rest of the people attending the seminar and once the seminar is done I need to get back to my both.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

 
Posted : July 20, 2015 5:15 am
(@al-olme)
Posts: 1711
 

Also at the MOA Billings event, there is an informal sidecar Q&A to be held at the Airheads Air Central at 3:30 Friday afternoon. This will be a gathering that is more geared to chats with experienced sidecarists. All are welcomed, you don't need to be an Airhead. If a hands on situation comes up we'll see where the wind takes us.

 
Posted : July 20, 2015 6:17 am
(@oldroadie)
Posts: 11
Topic starter
 

Lonnie,
I believe after I get the sidecar remounted properly I might be interested in one of those dampers.
Ed

 
Posted : July 22, 2015 4:49 am