Purchased in August of '23, this is my first sidecar rig. it is a '95 BMW R1100 GS with a '95 Dnepr sidecar grafted on via a DMC subframe. Put a bit over 1,000 miles on the rig before thinking about what would make it better. So this thread is about the upgrades to make a very nice rig better. 😎
After 3 months of internet searching, reading posts, and watching videos, I've decided to enhance the front steering by using the "Dedome method" as done here in the states by Randy's Motorcycle-Machine Shop. I was introduced to this idea by a thread on another forum by DaveFran.
Bought the parts on eBay and had direct shipped to Randy (who said it would be okay to give a shout out). Dave got me in direct contact with Randy. Thank you Dave! Together they've done the mod for the 1100, 1150, and if I understand correctly the 1200. All in with the Telelever painted, not powder coated, it will be a bit under $600. Fork Brace for the R1100 GS was spendy. GS Fork Bridge is different from the RT and not as common to find on eBay. This should reduce the trail to approximately 1-3/4". Measurements on this rig to come, once installed.
I chose this route for the following reasons. Less expensive than Leading Link, and more competent on difficult trails (for this specific bike/application). Keeps the forks at the normal Rake. Could not find a "Kit" for the axle relocation mod.
More posts to follow as the install starts. 🙂
Pictures are: Telelever nose shortened. Fork Bridge Lengthened. Parts top view with cutout piece. Parts bottom view.
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In the "Box-O-Parts" that came with this rig, was a "Trail Reduction" kit. After looking it over, I wasn't going to put it on. But then thought, "at least it will give me an idea of the effect on this rig to Trail Reduction." So as a test only and with cautious driving I gave it a try. To be honest the design and implementation of the kit makes me nervous. I'll end up using the steel for other projects, but its days as a Trail Reduction Kit are numbered... lol
Trail reduction for this specific bike ended up at 3/4" with the kit installed. The closest thing I can think to compare the feel of the steering is a late '60 Chrysler product. Very little road feel, super light steering. Unlike the boats Chrysler filled American roads with back in the '60s, the steering is quick. It starts to feel better with about 200lbs in the sidecar. Still very quick, but slightly more road feel, and just a tad bit heavier. Not confidence inspiring for emergency maneuvers.
What are my personal qualms with this specific kit? 1). Puts the ball joint in a bind. (2). Really "rakes out" the front end. So instead of the front tire rolling over obstacles off road, the wheel deflects to one side or the other. (3). Rake increases stress on the fork tubes, sliders and seals when ridden aggressively off road. (4). The base plate is powder coated, and so are the spacers. when clamped together the powder coat acts like a lubricant. The whole thing is held together by long 8mm cap screws with limited torque. That is my biggest concern. Had they angled the ball joint mount, and welded the spacers so all bolts were short (like oem design), I wouldn't be quite a worried. Still wouldn't use it as a permanent solution, but I'd have ridden more aggressive in testing. If this were a street only rig, and all the deficiencies in design & production were resolved... maybe, but probably not.
What I liked: 1). The machining of the individual parts is nice. (2) The material seems quality. (3) retains the ability to use the rear fender mount (unlike my choice of the Dedome Mod). There have been personal testimonies of a similar designed kit with tens of thousands of miles and no problems.
Pictures are: *Kit in the "Box-O-Parts". *Installed on the bike. *Rear fender mount spacer setup. *Look at the length of those 8mm bolts! *Getting setup to measure actual Trail after install.
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Dave is a member here. Goes by the handle davefran. Dave helped me do the DeDome mod on both my R1150GSA rig and my R1200GSA rig.
On my R1150GSA rig everybody who drove it said it was brilliant. Unfortunately, I totaled that rig.
On my R1200GSA rig, I had the DMC steering mod, the DeDome telelever with a 5/8-inch mod, and then I also converted the front wheel from the stock 19-incher to a 17-incher from a R1200RT (about 1-1/2 inches shorter in overall diameter). The result, then, isn't a fair representation of what the DeDome mod will do by itself. My three mods together I find to be tremendous. Other guys who drive my rig find it to be too "twitchy." Except for one guy who I loaned it to for a week -- he said it was twitchy on Day One, on Day Two he said it was getting better, and by Day Three he loved it. So the twitchiness experienced by the brief test riders might just be a matter of getting used to it.
My prediction is that you'll be super happy with it. If the steering ends up feeling too light, go on a 3-day trip to retrain your brain! If still too light, try less air.
Will be interested in your opinions after the install.
Quote from DRONE on November 21, 2023, 7:15 pmDave is a member here. Goes by the handle davefran. Dave helped me do the DeDome mod on both my R1150GSA rig and my R1200GSA rig.
On my R1150GSA rig everybody who drove it said it was brilliant. Unfortunately, I totaled that rig.
On my R1200GSA rig, I had the DMC steering mod, the DeDome telelever with a 5/8-inch mod, and then I also converted the front wheel from the stock 19-incher to a 17-incher from a R1200RT (about 1-1/2 inches shorter in overall diameter). The result, then, isn't a fair representation of what the DeDome mod will do by itself. My three mods together I find to be tremendous. Other guys who drive my rig find it to be too "twitchy." Except for one guy who I loaned it to for a week -- he said it was twitchy on Day One, on Day Two he said it was getting better, and by Day Three he loved it. So the twitchiness experienced by the brief test riders might just be a matter of getting used to it.
My prediction is that you'll be super happy with it. If the steering ends up feeling too light, go on a 3-day trip to retrain your brain! If still too light, try less air.
Thank you Sir! I've edited the original post to give Dave proper credit here.
Your sage advice and experience is greatly appreciated. 🙂 I do plan multiple day trips on & off road before making a final commitment.
Next summer, after plenty of riding time, the aluminum Fork Bridge will get replaced with a welded steel bridge. That "riding time" will provide plenty of opportunity to determine what the final geometry will be.
The rig is sporting a Shinko E705 up front, which will be replaced with something better. I've received some good tips in that regard as well, but haven't made a choice. Might try something new like the Bridgestone Battlax AX41. Doesn't look like it has been tried by anyone yet, so might be a good test. Then we'd have another tire on the good/bad list.
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Note: Trying a post directly from cell phone, will edit as needed later.
Finally getting to work on install of modified parts.
Here is a comparison between the stock & modified Telelever & Fork Bridge.
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How much shorter is the new A-arm?
Looking forward to hearing what this does to your steering.
Quote from Drew on December 22, 2023, 12:59 pmHow much shorter is the new A-arm?
Looking forward to hearing what this does to your steering.
Edited to fix my "metric mistake" as pointed out below by Miles.
The Telelever is shortened 19mm (3/4"). The Fork Bridge is lengthened 19mm (3/4").
Just back from a very cold short ride with both high speed sweeping turns, and low speed tight turns up and down hills. All of it on road.
Initial thoughts: In comparison to the original steering feel it is lighter, just a bit quicker, with good road feel. It feels like the bike would be comfortable to ride all day, even with the windshield on and a monkey.
In comparison to the DMC style kit, the bike feels more precise with better feel. Steering is slightly heavier.
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In the category of "If it drives well don't worry about the measurements":
After installing the Dedome inspired parts, and going for a ride, I took measurements, as I did right before removing the DMC kit. Interesting results, in that when the DMC kit was first installed and I checked trail it measured 3/4". I used the same measuring tools and criteria, and got different results, that I don't believe this time. The steering feels really nice, so I don't care. But I find it interesting. Maybe the cold has just frozen what few brain cells are left... lol
DMC kit came in at 1-3/8" trail. Dedome inspired mod came in at 3-3/4" trail. Neither setup feels like that much trail based on my experience over the decades with different bikes. In any case, I'm pretty happy with the initial impressions of the Dedome inspired setup.
Pictures: * Laser setup rig to get Steer Angle, and a True vertical Line through the axle. * DMC kit Steer angle. *DMC kit vertical line through axle. *DMC kit Trail measurement. * Dedome kit Steer Angle. * Dedome kit Vertical Line through axle. *Dedome kit Trail measurement.
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Let's just take a minute to appreciate the world we live in. Lasers. You measured your stuff with lasers. Lasers small enough that they didn't fill the garage and didn't cost the equivalent of a small countries GNP.
Now that's just cool.
You were way more scientific than I was. I held my LBS Triple tree up to the original, went "yep, different" and bolted it on. No before measurements, no after measurements, and no sharks with frickin' laser beams.
Nice Triple tree!
Yes, it is a great world we live in today. 🙂 That laser has helped level the floors in two rooms so far in this old broken down farm hobble. Only two more to go. It is earning its keep. As is the photography gear that it's mounted on. This will bug me enough that eventually it will be re-measured correctly for posterity sake. Maybe next summer when all is warm again.
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Actually Drew, it would seem that Sheath is far less scientific than you are......because in his fantasy.....45mm = 3/4 ".
Whereas in the real world, the scientific world, 45mm = 1.772" , and it is 19mm = 3/4"
Oh, the humanity!
Two Million Mile Rider...All 7 Continents
Exploring the World in Comfort
Quote from FlyingMonkeys on December 22, 2023, 6:07 pmActually Drew, it would seem that Sheath is far less scientific than you are......because in his fantasy.....45mm = 3/4 ".
Whereas in the real world, the scientific world, 45mm = 1.772" , and it is 19mm = 3/4"
Oh, the humanity!
Oh the lack of functioning brain cells. roflol!!
Thank you for keeping me honest. 🙂
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Hmm I'm glad you seem happy sheath you must have paid too much for that fork bridge, according to Claude less than 1.5" of trail is too little road feel( DMC liked 13/4" of toe in could that be why ?) I think according to Mr Dedomes drawing 45mm = about 1.77" trail
Claude assembled my rig and preferred to what he was selling or maybe he was only trying to flatter me.
Drew if you want to measure your new ball joint mount and it's less than an 1" difference you can move the swingarm (tele) mounting point Randy has done that also we pressed an aluminum pin in the original hole welded the ends and machined a new mounting position its easier than the 11/50's there is room in r12 tele for 1" movement.
I look at Vintage54 LL for Wally and am having an awful time keeping my mouth shut , if you're converting to LL and not running an auto tire why ????? It's like decaffeinated coffee what's the point ? You may have to do a little research to find a front tire that works but MC tires are expensive.
My now Norton's 1150gs with a 145/65/15 front that reduced the trail and it was fun but spooky also , 175/65/15 in the other positions go cart like handling
Merry Christmas Mates
Quote from davefran on December 22, 2023, 6:54 pmHmm I'm glad you seem happy sheath you must have paid too much for that fork bridge, according to Claude less than 1.5" of trail is too little road feel( DMC liked 13/4" of toe in could that be why ?) I think according to Mr Dedomes drawing 45mm = about 1.77" trail
Claude assembled my rig and preferred to what he was selling or maybe he was only trying to flatter me.
Drew if you want to measure your new ball joint mount and it's less than an 1" difference you can move the swingarm (tele) mounting point Randy has done that also we pressed an aluminum pin in the original hole welded the ends and machined a new mounting position its easier than the 11/50's there is room in r12 tele for 1" movement.
I look at Vintage54 LL for Wally and am having an awful time keeping my mouth shut , if you're converting to LL and not running an auto tire why ????? It's like decaffeinated coffee what's the point ? You may have to do a little research to find a front tire that works but MC tires are expensive.
My now Norton's 1150gs with a 145/65/15 front that reduced the trail and it was fun but spooky also , 175/65/15 in the other positions go cart like handling
Merry Christmas Mates
I do like it. The one thing that would make it better is if Randy cut the new aluminum block for the Fork Bridge with a boss that is drilled and tapped from the bottom, so a bracket can be attached from it to the rear fender mount. There isn't enough material to just drill and tap a hole without compromising the ball joint mount. I'll probably make a bracket to utilize the front boss (where the brake line T mounts).
Picture: Boss with hole drilled and tap through the bottom to mount a bracket for attachment to the rear fender mount.
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