Toe-in adjustment question

To much toe.go to u tube some very good videos out there.

I've always said that if someone tells you that you need exactly "x" amount of toe-in you should run in the opposite direction. That said, 1 3/4" of toe-in is a lot more than one would expect. I'd suggest that even considering the lean out you have, you should try more. A truly flat road should require no lean when loaded. AND that you should try much less toe-in. After saying that I have to fall back on another old "rule". ONLY DO ONE THING AT A TIME AND SEE HOW IT WORKS. But, make sure you make marks or notes that will let you return to your original settings.

If road camber is not an issue, something is so messed up that you aren't noticing the camber input.

Generally, pull at the handlebar is related to lean and tire wear is more about toe in. Remember, whenever you adjust lean , you need to recheck toe-in , one affects the other.

Have you spoken to Bob Darden at Texas Sidecars about this? He has a lot of experience with scooter mounted sidecars, particularly his own ;^). His phone is (903) 640-2149.

Good luck!

I agree, way to much toe in. Make sure that when you use your straight edge that it is only touching the rear tire, if it is also touching the front tire unless the tires are the same size and they are in line (not usually a problem on Suzuki but other people read these posts). I have attached instructions should you wish to start from scratch. For some reason the second page which is drawings did not attach. If you email me direct I will send it.
Jay G|
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
jay@dmcsidecars.com

The second page was there when I viewed it.

My lean-out seems just about right (2 deg unloaded, 1 deg loaded) as the rig handles differing camber well. The alignment has been done right and I've checked it several times, but that's been without a rider on the bike. What I'm now suspecting is that the sidecar is not level when I sit on the bike. I set its alignment unloaded. That would cause negative camber in the sidecar wheel when I sit on the bike, and that would cause a pull to the right exactly as I'm experiencing. I'll try leveling with the tub off and weights on the frame to compensate. I don't think that the toe-in would be different with the suspension compressed or not.

I'll bet that I'll then find that I need to reduce the toe-in.

Unfortunately, the instructions that came with the sidecar did not mention doing the measurements with the rider on the bike or with tie-downs to compress the suspension like it would be with a rider on the bike.

Okay, two tries and I think it's right -- 1" toe-in, sidecar level side to side, 1.5 deg. lean-out. I checked it with the bike loaded with a rider. My only question now is about the side to side leveling of the sidecar. Should it be level with or without a rider on the bike? It's down 0.5 deg with a rider and up 0.5 deg without.

It should be level with the rider on the bike.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com

Paul,

This is going to sound weird but the numbers aren't important. Does it go down the road without pulling excessively? That's what's really important, the numbers are just for reference so you can make changes and return to your starting point. One inch of toe-in on a rig only means something if you also know the wheel base and the track. With all those items you can calculate toe-in as an angle. Doing that is a big pain so very few of us ever do it but comparing toe-in alone as measurement is useless. That said 1" of toe-in on a short wheel base scooter is still a lot.

About leveling the rig side to side. If it isn't a huge difference, so that's it's creating a tire wear problem, it's no big deal. When you change leveling side to side you are also changing lean out. You might find folks that feel differently but to my mind no measurement that's made without without the weight of the rider makes any difference [except maybe as a reference]. You'll seldom use the rig without a rider ;^).

All this is just my opinion, you'll hear others.

Paul, it took numerous attempts before we finally found a satisfactory alignment for Jena's Burgman/Texas rig. If my memory serves me correct, we settled on toe in at 1/2-5/8 inch with loaded lean-out with dog/stuff in car at 1.0-1.5 degrees. As measured with "degree wheel" I generally level the sidecar frame where it's within 1 degree side-to-side & front-to-back regardless of load. Jena's rig drives quite well after installation of Bill's triple trees.

I rode the outfit and it's much better.

Getting the sidecar level seems to be a VERY important part of the alignment. Getting mine as close to level as I could has made a huge difference. I had installed the de-raked tripe tree and had not realigned it. That's why I had needed so much toe-in -- to counteract the de-cambered car wheel because the new triple had made the frame lower on the bike side of the car quite a bit. Being within 1/2 deg. of level seems to work right. My scooter actually has a LONGER wheelbase than most motorcycles. 1" toe-in seems to be just about right. The toe-in did not change with a rider aboard vs. unloaded. The lean-out and level side to both did change though.

We run approx 1/2 in. toe in on Avanell's Burgman. Seems to work fine. J.R.