if the bike with sidecar pulls left hard in hard braking - the only two choices are to never brake hard or have a brake on the sidecar. getting the balance right is difficult.
once you reach the adhsion limit of the front tire and it starts to slide you are out of options.
i do dot inspections on trucks - the rules on braking are gradually moving to "all wheels must have brakes" from the view 10 years plus ago "require enough brakes to stop safely" while trucks and bikes are vastly different in size and wt the physics are the same. and now they have to have antilock as well & many bikes do too..
if the sidecar is light enough and the brakes on the bike are good enough it will probably be ok.. but take it to a parking lot and try maximum braking to have some idea what is happening.. in my case i find the hard part is to be even, too little front and it pulls right, too much front and it pulls left. its too bad that the antilock units on police bikes cant be fitted all around.. yet.. oh well.
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Lonnie's post above is the number one answer. Practice !!! Anyone who just jambs on the brakes and expects the rig to stop in a straight line everytime with or without a sidecar brake may be in for a rude awakening if they have not practiced braking on that particular rig. Practice braking in a right turn, in a left turn and straight ahead. Go from normal braking to a panic stop. Play with just front brake and just rear brake and then both toghter. If you have integrated brake son th ebike practice to get a feel for that happens there. If you have the sidecar brake plumbed into the bike braking system practice is required too. If you have a seperate sidecar brake that system requires practice etc etc etc. Note that seperate sidecar braking systmes ar epopular but if you are not used to using the sidecar brake with that system in normal stopping thenm you probably will not be very good at using it in a panic situation or you will not tend to use it at all under those circustances. We have said i tmany times that you can plan your actions but not your reactions. Reactions will come from what you have made yourself familar with through experience and practice. With practice, Soon you will get to know the rig and what works best on it under varied conditions. At some point make it a point to practice under wet conditions and on loose surfaces too. Writing about this properly is probably harder than learning about it in real life practice. The concern I have is that we will give the impression that sidecar rigs will not stop well. This is not the case at all. They do however take a little time to get used to whether they have sidecar brakes or not. As far as locking the front wheel goes , yes, as on any thing else once it is locked steering input is lost. You can lock it and then unlock it during hard braking and regain that steering control but it takes practice. The addition of a sidecar brake IS NOT the cure all to consistant good braking. Practice is!!
i agree, practice is imperitive
many riders, guys ive known for years, never use there front brake for nomal stops and claim they only use them in a emergency. i always want to have them go in front of me, i dont want to stop dead and have them run into me since in a panic all they will do [seen this happen] is lock up the rear tire. if a bike and sidecar need both brakes in a panic its best to use them both all the time, or during a panic the rider will just lock up one wheel and plow into whatever is in front of them..
however - as the sidecar and bike get heavier at some point operating without a integrated sidecar brakes becomes a problem. my sidecar when loaded can be up to 600lb. the combination is rated to 1600lb. its just nonsense that it can be panic stopped in a straight line when fully loaded with the side car brake disconnected. at the same time im quite certain that a light bike with a light sidecar can be just fine with no sidecar brake.
later
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Like we've said: Practice, Practice, Practice.
It's not "Nonsense" that a heavy rig can be stopped without a sidecar brake. It takes "Finesse". One doesn't just hit all the binders and hang on. That's courting disaster.
As any racer will tell you, there are many ways to control the path of any wheeled vehicle. The steering wheel or handlebar is a good starting point.
Beyond that speed, acceleration, deceleration, braking techniques all play a part in control.
It takes muscle memory to to use these tools correctly in an emergency.
This comes from rote duplication of different situations.
What some of us call "Practice".
Lonnie
Practice, I agree.
It's amazing how many riders have never tried a panic stop on their machine. Try it at 5 or 10 mph first, and work up to 30 mph in a parking lot. You want to know what your machine will do when you need to stop fast. Try it on blacktop and later on gravel. The time the deer steps out in front of you, or when a car runs a stop sign is not the time to practice your first panic stop. Controlled, fast stopping is a critical skill to have mastered.
I have to add, knowing what my machine will do during a fast stop has saved me more than once. I have no apprehension with applying the brakes hard. Practice has given me that confidence.
Lonnie and Mike are right on the button. Experience means a ton in this area. Experience comes from practice. Some could have been riding sidecar rigs for a long time and still not have any real 'experience' in these areas. .....Those who give the impression that a sidecar rig will stop in a straight line under panic conditions because it has a sidecar brake are obviously not experienced in that area and have not practiced much on various rigs. Sidecar loading either static of induced will make a difference. Sidecar braking systmes vary. Sidecar tires sizes vary etc etc. Loads in right and left turns vary as do loads when braking in a straight line. .....Practice is the number one key and practice on one rig will not automatically mean another rig will react the same under the same conditions. .....If we take say a Hannigan sidecar which has a good disc brake on it and compare it to a Velorex with a cable actuated drum brake thay are not the same animal. The Hannigan brake will work quite well but practice is still imperitive. ... Mike made a good point in basically saying so many do not have a clue what their rig will do under panic braking conditions. This fact is sadly true on sidecar rigs, solo bike, autombiles and many things. .... Keep in mind regarding sidecars that todays motorcycles have very good brakes as a rule compared to bikes of just a few years ago. Most rigs will stop quite well with no sidecar brake but it does not mean that we just jamb on the binders and expect it to stop in a straight line with no steering input. Brake or no brake on the hack!! ....Lets take a rig with a good sidecar disc brake intergrated into the rear wheel of the bike. Under very hard straight ahead braking If front and sidecar brake are applied hard at one time the rig may stop pretty Straight. If front tire locks up it may turn to the right. If sidecar tire locks up it may turn to the left. If just the rear brake is applied it will usually turn to the right as a good sidecar brake will usually overpower the rear brake. This is not bad because there is still steering input as long as the front tire is rolling and not locked up. If just the front wheel is braked the rig will turn left with no steering input. None of this is a bad thing if one practices. In fact braking can be used as a means of steering the rig to a point under hard riding. The above may vary somewhat on different rigs, under different conditions etc.. .....The abpve examples indicate why practice in so important on YOUR rig. .....On these discussion boards we can write until we have callouses on our fingers from typing and it still will never replace the need to practice. Somethings said may unintentionally seem overstated. Somethings said will seem as fact across the board but the source may not be the voice of a lot of real experience. Hack'n (Lonnie Cook) and The Red Menace( Vernon Wade) have been around the block a few times and have experience on many different rigs. Others of course have also. Even at that there will be some disagreements between them but the basics will remain the same. You may from time to time even find some comments motorvated by a desire to sell a product. So..read what you can, consider the source if possible, and rememeber that practice is what is essential on a given rig.
Originally written by MikeS on 11/26/2006 8:05 PM
Practice, I agree.
It's amazing how many riders have never tried a panic stop on their machine. Try it at 5 or 10 mph first, and work up to 30 mph in a parking lot. You want to know what your machine will do when you need to stop fast. Try it on blacktop and later on gravel. The time the deer steps out in front of you, or when a car runs a stop sign is not the time to practice your first panic stop. Controlled, fast stopping is a critical skill to have mastered.
I have to add, knowing what my machine will do during a fast stop has saved me more than once. I have no apprehension with applying the brakes hard. Practice has given me that confidence.
To expand on this. People tend to practise this by zooming across the parking lot and suddenly applying the brakes. Panic stops aren't only required when traveling in a straight line. In my case anyway, the few times I've gotten into tight situations have been coming around a curve with stone bluff or trees blocking the view. If you're half way through a 40mph right hand curve when Bambi jumps out in front of you, straight line practice may not be enough.
Likewise, when the minivan tried to turn into me, I left the pavement and had to control things at 50mph bouncing through ditches and barbed wire fences.
Practise those moves while turning, as well as while going straight. And it doesn't hurt to try it on a wet as well as a dry grassy field or a gravel pit as well as a paved parking lot.
