My very first sidecar experience today.. Where should I go from here?

Pretty rig! You can add a steering damper and it will mask but not cure the oscillation and it will make steering even heavier. Here are a few things you can try to improve your handling.

Check your mounts-bounce on the bike and on the sidecar and watch for movement or flex. Some rigs do have a wobble or oscillation at certain speeds but a loose or flexible mount will also cause this.

experiment with tire pressures. Check your tires for wear. Mismatched or worn tires can also cause this and sometimes a slight change in tire pressure front or rear can fix it.

Make sure the alignment is good and be sure and check it with the shocks compressed as if you were aboard the bike. Steering effort and wobbles can be affected by changes in alignment. Mark your mounts so you can tell where you started, then change one thing at a time and see how it affects handling. You can always put it back to your original marks if you don't like the changes.

You may be able to slip the forks up in the triple trees and/or put a taller profile tire on the rear and lower profile tire on the front to reduce steering effort by making the steering angle steeper. You may be able to both control the wobble better and increase your leverage for reduced steering effort by fitting wider handlebars

Check the basics and try the cheap stuff first

Originally written by RedMenace on 4/18/2007 12:05 AM

Pretty rig! You can add a steering damper and it will mask but not cure the oscillation and it will make steering even heavier. Here are a few things you can try to improve your handling.

Check your mounts-bounce on the bike and on the sidecar and watch for movement or flex. Some rigs do have a wobble or oscillation at certain speeds but a loose or flexible mount will also cause this.

experiment with tire pressures. Check your tires for wear. Mismatched or worn tires can also cause this and sometimes a slight change in tire pressure front or rear can fix it.

Make sure the alignment is good and be sure and check it with the shocks compressed as if you were aboard the bike. Steering effort and wobbles can be affected by changes in alignment. Mark your mounts so you can tell where you started, then change one thing at a time and see how it affects handling. You can always put it back to your original marks if you don't like the changes.

You may be able to slip the forks up in the triple trees and/or put a taller profile tire on the rear and lower profile tire on the front to reduce steering effort by making the steering angle steeper. You may be able to both control the wobble better and increase your leverage for reduced steering effort by fitting wider handlebars

Check the basics and try the cheap stuff first

..................................................................
Ditto....
Low speed wobbles are not uncommon and what vernon saod is right on. With a little practice you may be able to ride through the wobble area and it may not be quite the issue it seems to be now after some more 'seat time' is gathered. I am speaking here is it is the little annoying type of wobble that is so common and not a tank slapper. Also heep your hands on the bars!
All of what Vernion said when done togehter will make steering a little easier. In your avator it appears your bike has narrow bars on it. These look good but do noting to help steering become easier. Try wider ones and it will help. Keep in mind that you are tense when operating a sidecar for the first time. This is perfectly natural and all are that way whether they think so or not. In time you will become more at ease when in th esaddle and that alone makes a world of difference.
It will work out...maybe do some simple mods foirst and concentrate on practicing.

Oh, forgot to mention ...That is one beustiful rig you have put together!! Good job.
My personal rig is presently an R100R with low bars installed. I had used RS bars on it and they were quite narrow. To give mor eleverage I widened them about 6" by cutting them in the middle and putting a slug inside them and then a tube over the slug. All welded up and ground smooth you can't see what was done. The basic appearance is not much different and the extra leverage is great.

Thanks again for the replies.

I rode only for couple of minutes yesterday just running around the block.
That low speed wobble was more scary than annoying. I had to stop to avoid the rig going out of control.

Yes, the bike has a clubman bar. It was meant to be a cafe racer before I put the sidecar on.

I was worried that something was inherently wrong with the setup but hopefully practice and adjustments will make the rig ridable.

Right now I cannot imagine going on the highway or put my son in the chair.

First off so I do not forget Welcome to the world of sidecars and you have a nice looking rig. You have heard from two of the best but I will put my two cents in anyway. I started riding again a bit over a year ago after 30 plus years off so I know that fear thing. That is now long gone, the wobble is still there, but I just ride thought it. It takes time and doing the drills. Take it slow for a bit and you will get there I did so anyone can. A book that helped a lot is Hal Kendall’s that you can find at the link below. Oh I did not wear out 1st and 2nd gear but did a lot of back streets and parking lot riding. Lol.

http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp

Thank you.

I read Sidecar Operator's Manual.
How to setup toe-in and lean-out is slightly different between the manual and the installation instruction from VelorexUSA web page.

I wonder which one I should follow.

I noticed that lean-out measurement is really sensitive to the steering angle. I understand the steering needs to be straight but slight change in the angle make a big difference in lean-out reading. Velorex says it should be 1/8", really small number to achieve considering inaccurate elements like rubber tires and 2x4 wood...

Shigeo,
I use an inexpensive magnetic angle guage on the front rotor and set up at 1 degree of lean-out with driver aboard the bike.
The toein is best figured at the point where you get neutral steering at a steady rate of speed.
Another method of reducing head shake is to tighten up the head bearings a bit to help eliminate it.

You're looking good,

Lonnie

Originally written by skiri251 on 4/18/2007 2:35 PM

Thank you.

I read Sidecar Operator's Manual.
How to setup toe-in and lean-out is slightly different between the manual and the installation instruction from VelorexUSA web page.

I wonder which one I should follow.

I noticed that lean-out measurement is really sensitive to the steering angle. I understand the steering needs to be straight but slight change in the angle make a big difference in lean-out reading. Velorex says it should be 1/8", really small number to achieve considering inaccurate elements like rubber tires and 2x4 wood...

set the toe-in around 1/4 to 3/4 " for starters.
make sure the straight edges you use are really straight. a 1/8 or 1/4" bow in one, or both, can really screw up the toe-in settings.
put a 4" block along side the bike rear tire and SC tire, and set the straight edges on the blocks by the tires. pressing it tightly to the front and rear of the tire sidewalls. extent to the front bike tire,and lay it on the floor here. DO NOT touch the front tire. remember, the front tire is usually narrower than the rear.
when you push the straight edge against both sidewalls of the rear tire, it will be about 1/4" away from the front tire sidewall. depending on the difference in tire widths. my /5 has 4.00 on rear and 3.50 on front, others will vary.
do the same to the SC tire, extending it forward to front of the bike.
then take a measurment just in front of the front bike tire, across to the straight edge coming up from the SC tire.
adjust the toe in untill it is around 1/4".... less is good.
remove the edges and reset and try again to make sure the settings are accurate.
I picked up an 8' long piece of manufacured wide baseboard molding from a home building supply..it is perfectly straight.
for the bike side I am using my 8' long aluminum cut off guide used for panel cutting. It too is straight.
then ride and see if you need more or less. should be close tho. too much toe in will cause fast wear on the rear bike tire.
to little or beyond wil cause the bike to wander on the Hwy.]squirilly]

I slid the fork tubes in the triple tree about an inch and increased the front tire pressure to around 36 PSI.

Big difference.
Now the wobble is less than annoying.
I could run up to 50 mph with no fear.
It goes straight.
The rig goes right on acceleration and goes left on decel but just barely.
It's manageable.

Thanks!

I like the look better now. With lowered front end, it looks more like sidecar rig.

Happy happy, joy joy!

Originally written by Hack'n on 4/18/2007 12:49 PM

Shigeo,
I use an inexpensive magnetic angle guage on the front rotor and set up at 1 degree of lean-out with driver aboard the bike.
The toein is best figured at the point where you get neutral steering at a steady rate of speed.
Another method of reducing head shake is to tighten up the head bearings a bit to help eliminate it.

Yuo're looking good,

Lonnie

Thanks.

The brake rotor. That's a good idea.
Where can I buy magnetic angle gauge?

These things are around here and there. Real name being a universal protractor. Many shops have one that is plastic and an orange type color that are cheap and do work okay. Main diference between the cheap ones and th emore expensive ones is that the it takes th eneedle longer to stop moving on the cheap ones.
Not a bad idea to get a couple of them. When setting up a sidecar we use these a lot with one maybe on the sidecar frame and one on a brake disc or whatever.
Be careful if you are using them around where soem fabrication is taking place because grinding dust stuck to the magnent can throw you off as it prevents it from sitting as it should.
Also on the plastic ones be careful to not sit it on a hot surface as it will melt. (Don't ask///lol)
If using more than one it is not a bad idea to sit them next to one another to make sure they read the same. If they do fine...if they do not then just use one. Accuracy is not as important as consistancly. In other words if one is off a little and that is the only one you are using then you can still extablish a base line to work with and who cares if the actual degrees are spot on or not.
Here is one from Sears:
http://www.tiny.cc/hZJvW

Magnetic angle guage/protractor can be purchased from Sear's, Lowe's, Home Depot, from most building supplies.

Lonnie

I bought it from Harbor Freight.
I didn't know they're only a few minutes from home until I did an Internet search. What a shame. Now I need to buy more tools! LOL

According to the "angle finder", my rig has around 1 degree lean-in.
I will make the adjustment and see how it goes.

Adjusted lean-out to 1 degree.
Toe-in was around 3/8".

Went out for a test ride, There was no big change but I think right/left pull during accel/decel got even less.

Turning left/right from dead stop is really easy.
However if the rig is moving (5~10 mph..), turnig is still heavy.
Is this normal?