Thats the ones:o) I'm trying to come up with a rubber mount for the front. It has to be able to squish forward a tad when the springs compress. But I don't want it loose and rattly when I'm bombing through town:o)
Or leaving someplace late at night? lol
Lonnie
That to:o)
Originally written by Wngnut on 5/26/2009 5:27 PM
Thats the ones:o) I'm trying to come up with a rubber mount for the front. It has to be able to squish forward a tad when the springs compress. But I don't want it loose and rattly when I'm bombing through town:o)
That's the reason for shackles. They are generally rubber-mounted and they permit increase in length with no rattles prevent touching of the frame by the spring.
They also increase stability because they only operate in one plane.
9 pages and 7435 views,,,gotta be a record,,better get er done Wes before we run out of pages 🙂
just thinking the same thing when she's done best start on the camping trailor just to keep in practice. Hank
Here is a video on shackles. The anti-inversion part of it probably isn't relevent.
With the old springs I found, I think, it would be hard to add shackles. Where I'm using found Items I'm stuck to engineer around what I've got. They are made to hold on one end and slip on the other. I've started the front mounts. They will accommodate the small amount of movement that the springs have.I'll try and get some pictures tomorrow.
I have a question for you gurus. I've pushed this thing in and out of my garage several times. When I turn the rig the sidecar wheel scrubs a little. Is this normal? I know I don't have it exactly lined up yet. But I don't know how this thing is supposed to act. The last sidecar I saw, was headed the opposite direction on the freeway.
I appreciate the input:o)
Originally written by Wngnut on 5/30/2009 2:53 AM
With the old springs I found, I think, it would be hard to add shackles. Where I'm using found Items I'm stuck to engineer around what I've got. They are made to hold on one end and slip on the other. I've started the front mounts. They will accommodate the small amount of movement that the springs have.I'll try and get some pictures tomorrow.
I have a question for you gurus. I've pushed this thing in and out of my garage several times. When I turn the rig the sidecar wheel scrubs a little. Is this normal? I know I don't have it exactly lined up yet. But I don't know how this thing is supposed to act. The last sidecar I saw, was headed the opposite direction on the freeway.
I appreciate the input:o)
It shouldn't "scrub" as you say, if for starters:
1. The sidecar wheel is exactly vertical.
2. The sidecar wheel is set initially to approximately 1" or less toe-in.
3. Assuming also that the wheel turns freely and is properly inflated.
4. And that the lead is in a proper position....not sure what that might be. The HD sidecar for example has very little lead. Sorry I don't remember the exact amount...I will have to measire.
Well this old auto shop alignment teacher thinks it will scrub with toe-in as the tires are pivoting around different center points and on different radii unless they are straight across from each other ala 2WD versions. On vehicles we minimize this with an alignment angle called "toe-out on turns".It is established by the steering arm design on the front spindle and if not correct will wear tires if you drive mostly around town. I have 88 GMC SWB PU and it squeals loudly driving through parking garage spirals. I believe GM broaden the spec so they could use the same steering arm on more than one chassis length. Our contact patch is small enough that on most surfaces you wouldn't notice it. YEMV. Max
It's not much at all. I wonder if it's because The body wasn't on it yet? I'm sure it was toed in and the tire was vertical with the ground. I have 10" of wheel lead.
I would think that with any lead at all, you would get some scrub? because the wheel wont be traveling on the same radius as the motorcycle tire? It will be kind of dragged around the corner(or pushed, depending on which way you turn?)
Originally written by maxm on 5/30/2009 1:53 AM
Well this old auto shop alignment teacher thinks it will scrub with toe-in as the tires are pivoting around different center points and on different radii unless they are straight across from each other ala 2WD versions. On vehicles we minimize this with an alignment angle called "toe-out on turns".It is established by the steering arm design on the front spindle and if not correct will wear tires if you drive mostly around town. I have 88 GMC SWB PU and it squeals loudly driving through parking garage spirals. I believe GM broaden the spec so they could use the same steering arm on more than one chassis length. Our contact patch is small enough that on most surfaces you wouldn't notice it. YEMV. Max
Nice theory and interesting comparison with automobiles. My Harley doesn't "scrub" however. Perhaps what is being described is only a new tire on the concrete floor. It's hard to tell.
Originally written by Wngnut on 5/30/2009 1:24 AM
It's not much at all. I wonder if it's because The body wasn't on it yet? I'm sure it was toed in and the tire was vertical with the ground. I have 10" of wheel lead.
I would think that with any lead at all, you would get some scrub? because the wheel wont be traveling on the same radius as the motorcycle tire? It will be kind of dragged around the corner(or pushed, depending on which way you turn?)
The 'scrub' if, I am interpreting what you are speaking of right, is related to wheel lead, track width and also the amount of trail you have.
If you sit the rig still and turn the bars you will see the sidecar wheel move in a fore and aft motion. If it had less trail, or less wheel lead or less track width you woudl not see it move much, if at all. This is true for all rigs.
Trail is commonly reduced on a sidecar rig which is done to ease steering effort. It also produces less scrub.
The amount of wheel lead that works on most rigs is between around 9 and 12 inches but is not cast in stone. Lead is required for stability in turns away from the sidecar so we are stuck with that.
Track width is usually 48" or more. The wider the rig the more scrub you will notice.
Everything is a compromise and we all just have to deal with what we have in front of us.
I woudl not be too concerned about it unless you have a ton of wheel lead.
Here is alink to a thread at the ADVrider site which may prove interesting to you. It was writtem by Peter Smith of Side Effects. He is an engineer type so read carefully and look close at the pictures. Also note that this is theory and ,again, not set in stone even though some good points are made.
click here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468196
without to much technology sidecar wheel lead is a nessasery evil 0 lead = no scrub but a lack of stability when turning away from the chair, the further forward you go the more the bike will tend to push the chairwheel sideways so to answer your question you have 10" lead so it's going to scrub but it's not a big deal on the road as you need to be at full lock for maximum scrub. Hank
Here is a shot of the front of the spring. You can see how when the spring compresses it will slid through the pin.
I have a couple pieces started for the front mounts. The rubber pieces are from a couple big rubber bumpers. I just cut the mount off. I'll trim them to length and turn them down so they fit in the tubes.
