OK...so here is the skinny- I had open heart surgery in 07, Right arm cant pick up a gal of milk now due to the dr getting carried away and me needing neck fusion, and right elbow rebuild. (long boring gross story) ....my Lady had an auto accident so she can not "hoist" her leg over the back of a bike now (her words, so I am not in trouble here). Answer? Sidecar!
Bank is on board for any of the following 3 ideas.
1- Buy a new Ural CT and put a pass windshield on it. Pros- new. Built for sidecar. Reverse, love the look and idea. Not worried about speed, but with my physical issues, wrenching would be a challenge, but I think I could do oil and tune ups. Cons- repair network is 300 miles away at best. So I would buy said bike, drive it home, turn around and return for the 500 mile service. The seat is 18" (My Lady is a larger woman) Cost after my HD Sportster trade in, about $8k
2- Get a 2012-2014 used Ural. Most of the pros, (most likely no FI, or disk on the hack) possibility of 2 wheel drive, cons- never know how it was broken in. Cost after HD treade, $5k
3- Buy one of Jay's DMC M72cx sidecars. Pros- bike is bullet proof, I already have the bike, network would be fantastic, sidecar is 21" wide, and while speed isnt the issue, the Sport would haul ass. Cons- dealer to install is 300+ miles. No reverse, no front end alterations, no option to get 2 wheel drive. Final cost, about $7,500
So what are your thoughts guys? Half of me is a bit fearful of the lack of reliability of the Ural, but the other half LOVES that the rig is BUILD to be a sidecar, has leading link, reverse, and the goodies the Urals come with. As I said, I am funded whatever I chose......I have till spring to work this out, as the Sportster is in bed now. ANY help would be very welcome!
It has been many years since I went to Ural mechanics school so specifications have changed.
As to 2WD, it really is only good when you are about to get stuck off road as the bike does not have a differential it does not want to turn with 2wd engaged making it of little to no value on the street as even in snow turning is nice. If you do want to go off road then it might be use full. You are also considering a sidecar on your current bike, would you want to take it off road? I doubt it. If you are planning on going off road then the Ural would be the better bet or, change bikes altogether. If the Ural's on road performance is acceptable then you might consider a Kawasaki KLR 650 for off road. If you set a KLR up with one of the Sputnik sidecars we imported from Russia you might find that you build the entre rig for about what you would pay for a nicely set up M72CX sidecar and as such you might be able to keep your current bike for when your lady does not want to come along (or she could ride the KLR) the Sputnik sidecars are $2995 and come with bike specific NOT universal mounting hardware. You could also run one on your current bike. These sidecars the front tips up making them fairly easy to get in and out of. As you have some time why not see if any one in your area has one she can sit in. Also have her sit in a Ural, if the Ural fits then our M72C or M72B would also fit as they are the same width. The M72B is much less money then the M72CX.
We will in a few weeks have a KLR for sale, it is a 2009 in very nice condition just serviced with 40K highway miles on it. It has GIVI bags and trunk and will have a Sputnik sidecar with a disk brake and a stiffer rear spring $8500
Steering modifications, the Ural may come from the factory with a sidecar that does not mean it is set up proper for a sidecar, Ural thinks that it is ok to ride their non 2wd bikes with our with out the sidecar which means that they have to much trail for optimum use as a sidecar bike and not enough for use as a 2 wheeled bike. The leading link has the same trail as the telescopic forked bikes and as such with the hard skinny tires that the Ural runs has little real world value other then for marketing as being some thing "special" for sidecar use. If you go with your current bike given your physical condition you will want steering modifications even if it means giving up some thing else you want like matching paint. The good news is that your bike is one of the least expensive bikes for triple tree's $550
Reverse, yes it is nice but really not needed. When you back up your bike now most of your effort is in keeping the bike from falling over. Not an issue any longer, get off and push and or have you lady also help push. I like to have a hard saddle bag that I can rest my butt on and simply walk backwards. Also as it is not going to fall over, coast backwards into a parking space, chances are you will only pull nose first down hill once into a parking spot and never do that again.
My $.02 worth, hopefully some one that does not have a vested interest will chime in with more advice for you.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
jay @dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
Very good points all of them Jay. Can I ask a couple of questions about your sidecars here? Or would you prefer an email?
I would be glad to answer in general questions that others might benefit from on this forum. Specific questions for just your situation it would be best to either phone or email.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
jay@dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Thank you Jay! Lets say the hip room of the M72c, or b would work. I have looked over your page and really the only differences I see are less lights and a trunk that does not open. Am I missing something? Next, how hard is the triple tree to change out? And lastly, I will be having Scrambler Cycle do the install.....can I add options like the door and racks at a later date? Or does it need to come with everything I want up front?
As for the Ural, Honestly the reliability and "pushing" it at 60mph really bother me. I really want to ride, not wrench.
The M72B is a much simpler sidecar, it does not have an external opening trunk, the frame is much simpler and can not have electric trim added. On the other versions of the M72 we make the body sits on rubber vibration isolators while on the M72B it sits on foam tape right no the frame. There are no turn signals on the body only a combination LED brake, tail and turn signal on the rear of the fender. No wiring goes into the body which means no options like power outlets or seat heat. The triple tree is about the same as a factory part other then you have to press the steering stem out of the original tree and into the new tree with a press. Scrambler will have no problem doing this and this is some thing you should consider a must have. The door is no problem to add latter as long as you order the tonneau cover when you order the sidecar, if you do not then you would need to drill the holes for the snaps. The racks you would need to drill the mounting holes other wise no issues adding them latter.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
I'm editing this post, because I'm now at a real keyboard and can type versus hunt and peck.
I believe that Ural uses raked trees for the sidecar rigs with Tele forks now. The solo rigs get standard, unraked trees. No solos made with LL forks, at least anymore. I believe they made a solo back in the 650 days that used the LL front end. I have an older 2000 Ural Tourist. Quality is not good but was okay for the price back then. I paid peanuts for it as as used, non-running rig. I wrench so not a problem. Just rebuilt my engine. I took the bike for a spin as a solo machine to seat the rings and I will say that it was not a comfortable ride. Close to zero trail meant it went straight fine, but it would turn in severely if you wandered from straight. I never got out of second and decided to turn around and head back.
Many Ural dealers are so-so. Thet are not real bike people. The dealers I trust, and there are only two, will not have much if anything to do with the other dealers. And, dealers are dropping like flies. Many are other businesses that added Ural to boost sources of revenue. The headaches that come with Urals and iffy support from the distributor and the mothership in Irbit are making them drop the brand. New rigs still have problems. Once sorted out, are fun machines. But they do require a knowledgeable owner IMHO. So, if you don't or can't wrench, you probably want a dealer close buy. I also believe that for the money they get for a new Ural, you can build a much better rig yourself. The Canadian Distributor for Ural dropped the line this year. I talked to them and they said the warranty issues combined with the new pricing policies just made it unattractive to them. Parts are priced like BMW parts now. There are lots of negatives to owning a Ural, especially a new Ural. An example is there is a rash of crack aluminum rims on late model bikes. No catastrophic failures to date, but lots of warranty replacements.
If you like your bike I think putting a car on your bike would make you happier in the long run. Other chairs you should look at for you HD are Champion and Motorvation. Both make vintage looking yet modern sidecars. And if Mama is a bit broad in the beam, then there are more modern looking sidecars out there that can accomodate that feature. Plus many have flip up noses, as Jay mentioned, to make getting in and out easier. No woman likes to struggle getting out of a sidecar in front of strangers.
Where you are located will play a role here. You want a shop that can properly set up your rig and then retune it if necessary. A sidecar rig means you will be putting more pressure on your arms because it does need to be steered and that is ongoing all the time you are riding. You will find that after the first inaugural rides, your arms will be tired or at least feel like they've been used. A solo bike only requires a light touch on the bars. If your right arm is going to stay weak and your left elbow is a problem, a sidecar rig may not be for you. Not trying to pee on your cupcake, but you have to consider this.
Getting back to dealers, giving your location might help others point you to a good shop. Perry Bursong in TX is a well known sidecar guy. Obviously Jay's shop would be a good choice. But where you are will have a lot to do with where you go.
Last point is watch the want ads. I was searching every day for rigs before I stumbled upon my Ural. I looked at vintage Beemers, modern Japanese cruisers, and everything in between that had every imagineable sidecar made strapped to it. What I learned was some that looked great were not so great. Some were just too small. I got into a Velorex 560 and struggled to get back out. And I'm very fit and slim. There are a number of Gold Wing rigs out there that have all the bells and whistles. I saw one during my search that had a custom LL front end and car tires. Owner was only selling it because he was getting a shiny new rig. Rigs are not selling like hot cakes as you will see if you watch the ads. Unless they are something very desireable like an R69S and Steib chair, they languish on CL and other listings for a long time. Winter is approaching so the market is even softer than if this were spring. If I were somewhat disabled I'd be looking at a used Gold Wing rig. I would also talk to my local Honda dealer to make sure he would work on the bike if it had a sidecar on it. All dealers these days do not seem very willing to wander far off the standard models when it comes to service. Even some Ural dealers will not touch machines older than 2005. HD dealers will no longer work on Shovelheads or iron head Sportsters. So, maybe step one of your quest for a sidecar rig is to find a shop that will service it once you have it.
Regards,
Rob
It appears nobody is interested in this thread. But I thought I'd beat it a bit more.
Jay, your experience with older Urals not having optimum trail for a sidecar rig had me wondering. Others on the Soviet Steeds site had said that the trees were different on sidecar vs. solo bikes and that made sense to me and assumed it was fact. But I've since pushed back on that a bit by asking if anyone knows that to be the case or not. So far, nobody seems to know. One poster did tend to agree with you that all frames are the same and the leverage advantage of the LL fork is what helps it steer with less effort over TF front ends. But another poster said he can see a difference in the headstock angle between two bikes he owns, one a LL and one a TF. But, if he is not a tech guy and one fork makes for a different attitude than the other, that could give the impression of a different headstock angle.
Maybe I'll do a survey and get guys to meaure the angle off the top tube of the frame.
I read somewhere, probably in another old post on the SS site, that at one time, Ural made an LL fork with two mounting points for either the pivot or the axle to alter trail between solo and sidecar duty. Do you know if that was ever the case?
regards,
Rob
Snakeoil - 11/21/2015 10:07 AM
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I read somewhere, probably in another old post on the SS site, that at one time, Ural made an LL fork with two mounting points for either the pivot or the axle to alter trail between solo and sidecar duty. Do you know if that was ever the case?
regards,
Rob
That was the case on BMW leading link bikes but I've never seen it on a Ural... then again, I haven't seen all Urals.
Al Olme - 11/21/2015 4:06 PM
I read somewhere, probably in another old post on the SS site, that at one time, Ural made an LL fork with two mounting points for either the pivot or the axle to alter trail between solo and sidecar duty. Do you know if that was ever the case?
That was the case on BMW leading link bikes but I've never seen it on a Ural... then again, I haven't seen all Urals.
You know, I read that somewhere as well. Could have been the same post that you read on the SS site. Terry Crawford might know. He's one of the originals involved with US sales as a dealer and parts distributor. Probably should have asked him to start.
I'll ping Terry and see what he says.
regards,
Rob
Well, rode a Ural ct. Loved it! Answered many questions and posed a few new ones! Yes, it is slow, but made me smile. The lady got in and out with ease and she loved the tub! So yes, the Ural would work. The arm effort was acceptable and handeling was fine. The dealer has a 2015 grey ct that was crashed as a demo, rebuilt. Rode that one and no ill effects. They want &13,500. A 2011 red patrol left over with tons of extras for $10,500 or put a DMC on my sport for $7k. The question now becomes reliability/network vs reverse and leading link front end.
I owned a 2012 Ural Gear-Up and had a-lot of fun with it. Rode it coast to coast with a couple of other Urals. The big issue seems to be the inconsistency with the manufacture. My speedometer drive gear failed which meant replacing the output yoke on the transmission which meant pulling the swing arm etc. A tooth broke off the ring gear in the final drive which meant rebuilding the drive. A valve guide failed on the left piston and the right piston burned thru the rings, a well known dealer in California could not explain why that happened, it wasn't running lean. One the other hand some folks don't seem to have many problems at all. My advice is to read the "Hammerin and Wrenchin" section on the Soviet Steeds forum, it will give you an idea of what to expect. I'm not knocking Urals, I had a blast with mine and met many good folks through their rallies.
You currently have a reliable bike that you are comfortable with that has an excellent dealer network.
You have several options for a good sidecar to be installed.
Looks like the only decision is which sidecar to have installed on your HD.
You will not miss reverse at all - and that's coming from a former (and we are legion!) Ural owner who also got very tired, very quickly of the very skewed wrench-to-ride ratio of Ural ownership.
Enjoy, and hope to see you on down the trail on whatever you decide to get!
Looks like DMC M72cx will be the ticket, and Scrambler cycle here in Wi has a great rep so they will be entrusted with my Sporty come spring. Photos to show about April!
I'm not much help now , but I have a Velorex on my 01 883C and with a little tuning I can manage 90 MPH sustained speed on the Interstates and my grandson has been in there since he was 2. I have not done the rake trees on my bike but I would advise that you have it done. My wife tried driving my rig( she rides a 95 Ultra Classic) and she said it drove like a tank trying to make turns.
