Hi Guys,
A question if I may.....and I'm sure it's been answered before, but here goes: I have my sidecar set up so that I have nicely neutral steering when the chair is empty, but (for example) today I was hauling my son around doing errands all afternoon, and with him in the chair, it pulls to the right. If I increase the lean-out and toe-in, I can make the steering neutral again, but then what will be the result when it is empty?
Mostly it is empty or nearly so, which is why I set it up the way it is. Any pearls of wisdom for an rider with many thousands of two-wheeled miles, and only a relative handful of three-wheeled ones?
Thanks, Guys!
You're like me, my sidecar is almost always empty. For that reason it is set up to work best that way. Short of adding a lean mechanism about all you can do is either live with it or adjust every time you want to carry a passenger. I only needed to do that once, when traveling with my wife and son through Minnesota pulling my camper. MN likes really high crowns on their State Highways.
One possibility is to add an air shock to the sidecar. My HitchHiker had one and I could raise and lower it with one or two pumps of a little bicycle pump.
my car is usually empty also,..with the car tire, I flucuate my air preasure from 8 psi empty to 12 or 14 with 60lbs or so weight in chair,..easily adjusts my lean out/lean in position.
Hi Guys,
Thanks! Both good ideas---I'm going to trot out to the shed and check my tire pressure this morning, and also look at the shock and see just how hard it would be to substitute an air-shock for the original. It's not the end of the world or anything, but my arms were a bit tired after about 125 miles, especially on the flats with a side-wind.
Other than that, I suppose I could just compromise between the two conditions, right? Just a tiny bit more lean out, and a smidgen more toe-in? I just don't want to be replacing spokes on the rear bike tire like I had to do a couple of times with my first sidecar.....that wasn't much fun on Interstate Five, about 800 miles from home!
Again, Thanks!
Originally written by Barb on 5/23/2008 12:12 PM
Hi Guys,
Other than that, I suppose I could just compromise between the two conditions, right? Just a tiny bit more lean out, and a smidgen more toe-in? I just don't want to be replacing spokes on the rear bike tire like I had to do a couple of times with my first sidecar.....that wasn't much fun on Interstate Five, about 800 miles from home!
Again, Thanks!
Yup, you got it right there..a little bit more of lean out...ride it and try it.then readjust if necessary, till you find the sweet spot..a happy medium that you can live with.
make sure you have enough permanent ballast in the SC to start with.
leave the ballast in at all times, even with a passenger.
that will make setting your rig up easier also. the difference wont be as much as having an empty SC and one with a passenger.
dont mess with the toe-in, unless it is more than 1/4" closer in front.
toe in is more for keeping the bike from wandering, and it decreases tire wear. the less amount is better.
but, check it whenever you adjust the lean in/out.
Does your sidecar have suspension on the sidecar wheel? I wonder if that is soft enough to cause a change in lean when the sidecar is loaded.
Just an idea.
>>>If I increase the lean-out and toe-in, I can make the steering neutral again, but then what will be the result when it is empty? <<<
Depending on what sidecar you have the result when empty may be drastic or not that big a deal. If it is a light sidecar or a sidecar with a softer suspension and you increase lean out when loaded and then take the load out it will be more tipsy in right handers.
If you add ballast and then set the sidecar up and leave the ballast in you may be better off if the suspension is not too soft.Bob Zinda alluded to this in his post.
Some type of lean, or more commonly tilt, adjustment is probably the best all around solution. Yes, this may be able to be done with shock adjustments either on the sidecar or the rear of the bike but the results may or may not be acceptable.
A swaybar can also make a difference.
We have changed the suspension on some sidecars to an adjustable torsion bar which provides a tilt adjustment at the same time.
As far as toe in goes you should check it before lean out is adjusted and then after you adjust lean out as it can change.Keep it wherever the best tire wear is evident.
Someone asked if your sidecar had a suspension on it. Unless it is a Harley sidecar(Like the poster has) it more than likely does. Rigid sidecars are not affected with various loads in the tub the same way suspended sidecars are. This is a plus in many ways. Warning: Do not just make your sidecar rigid to overcome your situation though. A rigid suspension will transfer much more stress to the mounting system, wheels etc. Also many sidecars do not have a spindle that may be up to the task of handling these additional stresses. If you were to go to a rigid sidecar you would also want to run a larger sidecar tire for some cushioning effect for the passenger and/or make up a way to suspend the sidecar body itself.
Well, let's see. My sidecar is, as far as I can determine, a mid-1960's "Spirit of America Sport Sidecar", whatever that means. It is definitely a lightweight, and came from a couple who had it on a Harley and it was way too small. It works just fine on my XS650 Yamaha (and may end up on my 750 Triumph), and it does indeed have what looks just like a rear shock from a motorcycle suspending the sidecar, just forward of the axle, which, incidentally, is of 1" diameter.
It seems to me that, since I'm somewhat limited in terms of passenger room anyway (when they say "Sport", they mean it...) I might get a couple of weights to equate to a light passenger, and just remove them when I carry a passenger. Would that work? Or if, for example, I have my granddaughter aboard, I could remove only one weight---basically keeping the gross weight constant?
I put 115 miles or so on her today, and without a passenger, she is delightfully neutral on both the freeway and some twisty country roads. If I can get that result with a load, I'll be forever satiated---or something. Then it will be time to get another sidecar and start over.....
Thanks for all of the input, Guys. I appreciate it a lot!
If using removable ballast, be sure and place it behind the sidecar seat to keep from dipping the nose "into the sand" with a sudden stop or braking in a left turn.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 5/25/2008 1:23 PM
If using removable ballast, be sure and place it behind the sidecar seat to keep from dipping the nose "into the sand" with a sudden stop or braking in a left turn.
Lonnie
Or on the sidecar frame back and out as far as possible. Main thing to avoid is weighting the nose of the sidecar.
Hi Guys,
Gnm, did you say something? (Just kidding....)
I have a small automobile battery behind the seat, and I also have some oil and my tools back there. My thought was something that could sit right under the seat? I'm not really worried about the nose--it seems to be a bit high anyway, so I'll just leave it alone. (The sidecar body has a "bumper" that goes around it, and measured at the nose and tail, the nose is about 2 1/2" higher than the tail.
I really appreciate all of the input, Guys. It's lots more complicated than just building a bike and riding it, but I really love the results!
(Everyone seems to love the results! People standing by the road on a sidewalk wave to me or give me a thumbs-up as I ride past. Very neat!)
