Originally written by Hack'n on 7/26/2008 11:12 AM
Check the trail numbers. Most of the late '70's to present middleweight Japanese cruisers have a lot of trail. As the years have passed the Harley clone Cruisers have increased in size, wheelbase, weight, tire size and braking potential making them a better sidecar tug.
Many of the heavy weight cruisers that are on the market now can handle a larger sidecar without help from a damper. The GL, VTX, Rune and Valkyrie is not your average Jap Cruiser. But if mounted to a doublewide they may also benefit from a damper.I am not a damper advocate. I set up for use without a damper if reasonable but sometimes a damper is the only way to eliminate headshake.
I've found that the /5, /6, /7 and some K's of the Beemer persuasion are also hard to keep from wiggling their noses without dampening.
With my Eectra Glides: if the trees were raked the damper came off.
Feel free to keep yours on.
Lonnie
Thanks.
Originally written by SidecarMike on 7/26/2008 1:28 PM
Only one I ever had that needed a damper was a GL1200 Goldwing. The Hitchhiker body had three sets of mounting holes. When we moved the sidecar body forward on the frame the shimmy disappeared.
Mike there is certaily something to having weight forward that helps take headshake away. Catch 22 is weight forward can make nose dipping of the sidecar more of an issue on left handers. More lead can help the dipping but other issues can arise once it gets too much lead.
Some have weighted the front of the bike itself. I have heard that Harley once had a weight for the nose of th ebike when a hack was added.
Like Lonnie, I am not a big advocate of dampers. We try to dial out the headshake best we can but sometimes do add a damper.
Another factor is that some folks are much more sensitive to even a small headsahke than others.The little shimmy that is so common is typically not a problem at all once one learns how to ride 'around it' or 'through it'.. Some newbies will get spooked when they feel it and do not run through that speed zone and then insist they need a damper.. Too bad in some cases as a damper can make heavy steering heavier. So it goes.
I run a Yamaha V-Star 1100 with a Bimmer sidecar. The Sidecar weighs 200lbs and I have a shimmy as well. I barely notice it now that I got used to it, and can ride with one hand and it is no bother, it disappears at 30mph (50kms).
please allow me to join this discusion from the uk i have managed with much trial & error to fit a VW damper to my 83 shovel with cle chair by using the steering lock hole & atatching other end to top part of swan neck fitting using a rose joint & a forward footpeg clamp it works ok, but now i find out harley make a damper kit. Ah well. on another matter this should be a new thread really, the british government has decreed that i canot fit a sidecar to the right hand side so i have chapped it up & re welded it to fit on the left in as near a mirror image as i can are there any dimensions available to check that i have it right, how much lead should the sidecar wheel have? & what is the function of the spring on the front top fitting?. thanks Hank
Hank,
8" sidecar wheel lead. I don't know about the spring you mention.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hank41 on 7/29/2008 9:56 AM
please allow me to join this discusion from the uk i have managed with much trial & error to fit a VW damper to my 83 shovel with cle chair by using the steering lock hole & atatching other end to top part of swan neck fitting using a rose joint & a forward footpeg clamp it works ok, but now i find out harley make a damper kit. Ah well. on another matter this should be a new thread really, the british government has decreed that i canot fit a sidecar to the right hand side so i have chapped it up & re welded it to fit on the left in as near a mirror image as i can are there any dimensions available to check that i have it right, how much lead should the sidecar wheel have? & what is the function of the spring on the front top fitting?. thanks Hank
The spring is used on the TLE for the earler bikes on the front mount to help retain the cross bar onto the mounr. It provides pressure to permit some movement but take up the slack. There should also be a large washer that goes on first, IIRC. Then the spring goes on, then the castellated nut and the cotter pin, or whatever you call those in the UK...(split pin?)
Happy Trails.
thanks folks the spring seems to be one of those harley things that work but the lord & harley knows why. i am concerned however about the lead, i have always as a rule of thumb worked with between 4 to 10 inches but the harley seems to only be about 3 inches at most ( why do they always have to be diferent )when you quoted 8" i assume you meant sidecars in general & not harley? Hank
Originally written by Hank41 on 7/29/2008 3:44 PM
thanks folks the spring seems to be one of those harley things that work but the lord & harley knows why. i am concerned however about the lead, i have always as a rule of thumb worked with between 4 to 10 inches but the harley seems to only be about 3 inches at most ( why do they always have to be diferent )when you quoted 8" i assume you meant sidecars in general & not harley? Hank
Someone on this forum (not me) can probably comment on the relative differences in different lead settings. I'm not a hack designer but I know there are some here who have done so. I just hook them up and ride them. LOL
Greetings to all of our friends in the UK from sunny Northern California!
Hank,
I meant the TLE Harley sidecars.
Lonnie
Back to the subject of sreering dampers, has anyone here experianced the phenomenon of over damping, i had a bmw r80 rt with a squire st2 with unit front forks wich i bought from a guy who said he had tried to ride it but found it to scary no probs thought i until i hit 50mph i was all over the road did 100 mls at 40 just to get it home turned out that the steering was so light that the damper cancelled out the self centering of the steering, so be careful its a lot scarier than head shake. Hank
Originally written by Hank41 on 8/1/2008 11:23 AM
Back to the subject of sreering dampers, has anyone here experianced the phenomenon of over damping, i had a bmw r80 rt with a squire st2 with unit front forks wich i bought from a guy who said he had tried to ride it but found it to scary no probs thought i until i hit 50mph i was all over the road did 100 mls at 40 just to get it home turned out that the steering was so light that the damper cancelled out the self centering of the steering, so be careful its a lot scarier than head shake. Hank
Well, I haven't personally experienced it. but I wouldn't want to ride very far that way. With a BMW, unless the steering damper was a factory accessory, it's possible that it could be too stiff. If the damping action is too stiff, it could be dangerous.
Dangerous it was, i felt sorry for the chap who sold it to me as it was his first time on an outfit i even offered to let him have it back but he felt giulty selling me a dodgy rig & wouldnt here of it. and it was a VW Damper. Hank
Originally written by Hank41 on 8/1/2008 12:48 PM
Dangerous it was, i felt sorry for the chap who sold it to me as it was his first time on an outfit i even offered to let him have it back but he felt giulty selling me a dodgy rig & wouldnt here of it. and it was a VW Damper. Hank
It could be that the VW steering damper was too heavy for the bike. They aren't adjustable, of course like some of the more expensive ones that are sold for Japanese bikes. It's also possible that the steering head bearings were shot or poorly adjusted. I had to change the ones in my 1994 SE Goldwing becuae they were completely worn out with notches and flakey spots in them.
Good luck.
Hank41 - Strange tale that one about the VW damper on a BMW, cause I have one on my R100/Squire ST2 and it's brill. Ran for 10 yrs without one then decided to put one on cause of the deflection's I was getting when going into corner's hard n fast. Completely cured it and it's no bother at all.
Safe riding Karl.
Hi Karl still rode with a damper just put a well used second hand one on & it worked fine. like where you live roads are great fun. safe riding. Hank
