Ok, since it has been a little quiet around here lately, here is another one for all of you to chew on...
The HitchHiker I have been running for years was a very light car and I never missed having a sidecar brake.
The newer Escort came without the brake (or TILT kit) but is supposed to be easily retrofitable.
Is the Escort a heavy enough sidecar that I will want to think about adding a brake to it?
If so, how expensive would the parts be?
Is it a mechanical or disk unit?
Is it better to tie into existing rear brake lever or have a separate lever.
Is there a less expensive way than the manufacturer's kit?
I plan to run this rig for quite a few years, so I want it set up "right".
Thanks!
karl, I have an airhead like you, with a 2001 motorvation FII flip nose SC...heavier than the Escort. I have no problems without a brake on the SC, even with a load of camping gear and pasenger in the SC. I also have drum brakes on the bike.
Try it without it until you get used to it and then make a decision. I have run with and without brakes on the sidecar and am still not a huge fan of them.
I changed the sidecar wheel on my Honda GL650/Dneper to a cast wheel that matches the motorcycle. The new wheel happened to come with the drum brake, so I went ahead and rigged it up with a linkage system and an extra brake pedal next to the existing rear brake pedal like a farm tractor. I was never convinced that I needed it, but now that I have it, I like it. I don't even notice that I have it. I'm sure however that I have maybe 10% additional stopping power when I have those panic stops for the deer in my area.
This summer I had a minor crash because rig drifted left in an emegency stop.Sidecar was loaded,was coming back home from a camping trip.
Next season I will have sidecar brake.
Gary Storch
Originally written by storch on 11/5/2006 10:12 AM
This summer I had a minor crash because rig drifted left in an emegency stop.Sidecar was loaded,was coming back home from a camping trip.
Next season I will have sidecar brake.
Gary Storch
drifted LEFT?
if anything, the rig should have drifted to the right with no brake on the SC, due to the drag from the SC on the right.
Only reason a left drift would happen is if the driver over-compensated for the SC drag on the emergency stop.
My rig pulls right om start up and left on stopping. I have no brake on S/C.
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 11/5/2006 10:19 AM
drifted LEFT?
if anything, the rig should have drifted to the right with no brake on the SC, due to the drag from the SC on the right.
Only reason a left drift would happen is if the driver over-compensated for the SC drag on the emergency stop.
Sorry to disagree there Bob, but you got your physics reversed there...
This is a classic push me - pull you situation.
{Warning - more geek engineering content...}
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Newton's first law of motion is: An object in motion tends to stay in motion in a straight line unless an external force is applied to it.
The momentum of the entire rig makes it want to continue forward in a straight line. When you apply a braking force off-center from the center of mass of the moving object it tends to make it turn.
In the case of a sidecar without a brake, when the brakes on the bike are applied there is a drag, or backwards force, applied to the left side of the rig. The right side is still free to move forward unrestricted (neglecting aerodynamic and rolling resistance losses).
This sets up a moment (or torque if that is easier to understand) around the center of mass of the vehicle. Pushing backwards on the left side, and forward on the right side. Net result - the entire unit tends to want to pivot to the LEFT...
That is why as the sidecar becomes heavier relative to the mass of the bike/rider combination it becomes more important to be able to apply braking force to the sidecar wheel to stop the rig with less tendancy for it want to pull to one side. The more mass you have hanging out to the side without a resistive force while braking the motorcycle, the larger the turning moment. (Momentum = mass * Velocity^squared)
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{end of geek content}
So yes, hard braking without a sidecar wheel brake CAN cause a left drift if not compensated for with steering, and can DEFINITELY drift left if you lose steering control by locking up the front wheel.
Of course, for every rule there is an exception....
If you manage to lock up both of your motorcycle wheels, there is a chance that you will spin to the right. That is because a sliding wheel has less resistance than a rolling one. That reverses the moment about the center of mass, and can make the wheels on the bike want to "lead" the still rolling wheel of the sidecar. And around you go... 😉
Ain't physics fun?!?! 😀
OOOOPS ! right! I had my lefts and rights mixed up...sorry.!!
too early in the AM here.
Originally written by bmwzenrider on 11/5/2006 10:10 AM
The momentum of the entire rig makes it want to continue forward in a straight line. When you apply a braking force off-center from the center of mass of the moving object it tends to make it turn.
In the case of a sidecar without a brake, when the brakes on the bike are applied there is a drag, or backwards force, applied to the left side of the rig. The right side is still free to move forward unrestricted (neglecting aerodynamic and rolling resistance losses).
This sets up a moment (or torque if that is easier to understand) around the center of mass of the vehicle. Pushing backwards on the left side, and forward on the right side. Net result - the entire unit tends to want to pivot to the LEFT...
My wife can attest to this. A few years ago I came around a corner, at speed, when we encountered about a dozen deer meandering across the road. All I could do was grab for the brakes as there was no place to swerve. They were all across the road and in both ditches.
The rig slid around about 90 degrees to the left and slid a short distance sideways toward the deer before it stopped maybe thirty feet from the pack.
Barb was not impressed with my driving.
The key to good brakimg whether with a sidecar brake or without one is PRACTICE!! When people are totally startled by how their rig reacts in a situation so many times it is due to them not taking the time to practice. No, this is not always the case as many things can happen on the road but we all need to take the time to learn what our rigs will do in various situations. If anyone has never practiced hard braking in a straight line, in turns etc you really need to do so. It all comes down to knowing your rig and it's limits along with knowing your limits and trying to expand them.
Keep in mind that a locked wheel will not steer! It is then only a contact patch of rubber on the road that will skid in whatever direction the forces acting on it are pushing it.
Another couple of things to keep in mind as far as sidecar brakes go. Braking of th esidecar wheel will be inconsistant due to varied loads in the sidecar and whether you are into a right turn or not. Some rigs are affected more than others of course. So, again, it is important to practice to know more how your own rig will react.
If useing a seperate sidecar rbake use it all the time when stopping. If you do not you will more than likely not use it in a panic situation....or...if you do use it in a panic situation you may not relaize what efect it will have.
Panic braking is much different than just stopping for a traffic light.
If using a seperate sidecar brake (or even integrated ones in many cases) if you are braking in a right turn with the sidecar wheel above the ground it may be startling to you when it comes down if the wheel is locked.
Practice practice practice
There are many things that happen when a sidecar wheel has a brake on it..intergrated or not. It is important to know what your rig will do under all of the types of braking you may do on it.
Integrated with the rear wheel may give straight line braking most of the time if the rear brake it hit or especially if front and rear brakes are applied. If only the front brake is hit the rig may (will) dart left. Many sidecar wheel brakes are better than the rear wheel brake on the bike. If this is the case then the rig may pull right when braked. Every rig has the potential of acting a little differently under different conditions.
I rode a sport bike/ Hannigan combo last year that had probably the best sidecar brake on it I had experienced. If you hit front and rear together on a straight stretch the thing woudl stop great in a straight line. If you hit the front brake alone it would turn left. If you hit the rear brake alone it woudl turn to the right. After some practice this was a fun ride as you could set up for corners real nicely under braking if you used the right methods but it took some getting used to.
I bought an 86 Kawa Voyager XII w/sidecar Tues night. Rode 350 miles home Wed. Car pulled out in front of me Thurs, Bike took a hard pull to the left. It skidded across the other lane, almost to the shoulder, and still almost hit the car as it pulled left to get out of my way. I don't know about over compensation, I know I had to brake and drag feet, whatever to slow down fast. I was going about 40 mph. I don't have a clue.I need a Pro to look at this contraption. Is there anybody in the Austin or San Antonio Tex. area? Comments and advice welcome. Thanks
Proper sidecar braking has the same answer as the guy got when he asked a stranger "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?".
The answer was: "Practice, Practice, Practice!"
Lonnie
