I have a '95 R100RT and a Sputnik car, waiting for a subframe. I want to connect the rear brake of the bike to the sidecar, much like the Ural set up. I currently have a '05 Patrol and like that setup. Any ideas on how that can be done? Thanks Craig.
You're better off using a separate pedal for the mechanical sidecar brake mounted parallel to your bike's rear brake pedal. That way you can use one or both as desired. Mechanical brakes and hydraulic (disc or drum) don't work well together since one is very inefficient.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
I've never had a seperate sidecar brake lever. I do have two rigs, Harley w/Champion Legend....no brake.....Goldwing with Hannigan GTL with a brake. I prefer having the brake. Mine is plumbed into the rear pedal. The assist it supplies is noticable, and I have never Locked up the sidecar wheel to my knowledge (I'm sure the dealer could explain better).
Again, I have not had a 2 pedal system as the previous post suggests, but I've seen them on rigs, and my only reservation is I don't see any benefit for the average rider to only use the sidecar brake without the rear MC break at the sametime. DON'T FLAME ME...just my opinion! I would love to hear if there is a valid reason to have them seperated other than "my bike is that way so it's the best!". LOL
The separate sidecar pedal can be quite useful in making right hand turns and is handy to have in low traction conditions.
Like throttle braking for control, the use of a separate sidecar brake should be practiced and the usage finessed to suit the driving conditions.
It is also the only satisfactory way to combine the usage of an inefficient mechanical brake with an efficient hydraulic drum or disc brake system.
Linking the two systems will usually only give a drag brake on the car at best and an uncontrollable rig when braking in the worst case scenario.
IMHO
Lonnie
I mentioned in these days on another thread, that it is not a good idea to mix systems.
Your bike is pretty powerfull, no brake is not nice and a mix might become dangerous.
I had MZ: back mecanical and sidecar hydraulic, that was with only 21hp allready dangerous.
Now I have Jawa (arround 27-29hp) on both back and sidecar mecanical brakes.
Its has a nice break doseing, which helped me out of a dangerous situation where with the MZ I would have went into the hospital.
Other way round: back hydraulic and sidecar mechanic I think wouldn't do nuch good neither because of different gib and different travel distances.
You might consider to mount a small piston to the sidecar's break lever and have an adjustment for the effective lever lenght.
About the hydraulic hook up (whether to go on the same master cylinder or two different master cylinders) you should ask somebody with more experience than me. I never had a big sidecar and my largest bike was a Norton Commando out off other times... which sent me to hospital in Death Valley.
As alternatives you might consider:
If you want luxury You might think about a flow divider with adjustable flowrate for to adjust for different loads in the sidecar. (This is an idea of an engineer who loves to play. Such thing is more expensive then a hole break system from nowerdays sidecar specialists.)
Other one is that I heard that more than one guy took the Guzzi (Brembo) foot break divider for the back and the sidecar breaks.
Good luck
Sven Peter Pan
I have a Harley/Ural rig. Hearing all the talk about "brake no brake" I wanted to see for myself how much I would like or dislike one or the other. Jay put a quick release on my brake line, so I played around a bit & drove the rig in both ways. It made my mind up for good. Brake GOOD --- no brake SUCKS As for a special peddle for the sidecar brake I don't see any advantage to it. I understand that some bikes have anti lock systems, & that may play a part in any decisions you may make. But with my rig, one peddle working the rear / sidecar brakes as a unit is just fine with me.
FYI: I run a K1100LT/EZS with linked disk brake and an R1100GS/Ural with a separate pedal mechanical brake. Both work well, just different. I prefer the linked disk on-road and the separate pedal off-road. It seems the answer depends on what/where you are wanting to ride. Danny
This may work well for those with hydraulic drum or disc brakes desiring to attach a sidecar with same. Be aware that the older airhead gang (and others)do not have that option. Also the owner of a two or three disc brake doesn't have that option when attaching a mechanical sidecar brake to a stsae of the art hydraulic system, ABS or no.
Enter separate pedal, now you know why.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars.
If you do the linkage a certain way you can have the sidecar brake (mechanical) come on when the bike pedal is depressed. How much can be adjusted. You can also still be able to use the sidecar brake alone if you want to play with it for right handers.
Personally I have ridden all kinds of systems over the years and still am not that enthused about sidecar wheel brakes. Yes they work okay. Yes we do install them if someone wants them. Yes, we lose money because we do not push the need for them. Yes we have done intergrated mechanical brakes, intergrated hydraulic brakes and have used propotioning valves in some cases.
Typically sidecar brakes are an easy sell for a newbie who has not taken the time to learn how to brake without a sidecar brake. That pull to the left and the correction for it with no sidecar brake soon becomes a second nature deal and isn't a huge issue.
I would highly suggest that any sidecar pilot learn to brake with and without the sidecar brake. Dependant upon the rig itself and the present road conditions a sidecar may work okay or not. Being able to compensate from the drivers seat is important saftey wise whether a sidecar brake is installed or not.
The stories of someone doing a panic stop and going left across traffic only indicate that the rider of that rig never took the time to practice as he or she should have. Accident avoidane has a lot to do with braking but whether a rig has a sidecar brake of not the operator needs to be in control when pucker time comse. Being 'in control' means that he or she needs to be able to analize the matter in front of them and brake as well as be able to provide steering corrections and of evasive moves when needed. This can only come from practice. To rely on brakes alone is going to cut the odds of survival drastically in many situations.
If a totally seperate pedal is used which is not linked to the bike's pedal be sure to use it all the time. The idea that says it is good to have it in case of an emergency is borderline ridiculous as if you are not used to using it you will not use it in a panic situation.
So to brake a sidecar or not can be the question. The answer is to follow what you think is comfortable for you and then without question TO PRACTICE!!
Note I did see a rig once that had a mechanical drum on the sidecar that was activated by a hydraulic slave cylinder mounted on the drum backing plate. Kinda ingenous and the owner said it worked pretty good. Intersting anyhow.
I have a 1983 Honda Silverwing with a Dneper sidecar. I bought a 16 inch aluminum wheel off Ebay for the sidecar to match the motorcycle. The wheel came with the brake drum, so I rigged up a linkage to a second pedal and began to learn how to use it. I adjusted the system so the rear brake engaged slightly before the sidecar brake. If I used the sidecar brake alone at a higher speeds, the rig would swerve. I had to use a lot of discretion with the sidecar brake alone. The 2 brakes together however, made a significant improvement in my ability to stop quickly and in control. I have since found that I only use them together, especially during panic stops.
/2 and I think the earlier"/3" BMW Steib rigs had a slave working off the rear drum to run the sidecar brake. Never looked at one myself, but have seen it in my manuals.
I know some people swear by sidecar brakes as a tool for turning right. I am not convinced it is a particularly useful technique. Yes, using a sidecar brake alone will pivot the sidecar to the right. BUT, proper steering and proper use of both brakes and the throttle will do the same thing more smoothly and more controllably. As you turn right the sidecar wheel starts to lift. Traction at the sidecar wheel is reduced and so is the effectiveness of your sidecar brake. The more abruptly you turn right the more this is the case. It might FEEL like you have made a hellofa smart turn, but I bet I can make that same corner at least as fast without a sidecar brake AND I can change my line or stop with more control in that corner.
A well set up sidecar brake can help you brake in a shorter distance and in a straight line. You can measure the distance out on the driving range during the braking exercises and it can be remarkable.
A poorly set up sidecar brake is a hazard and can cause serious control issues.
I have seen more poorly set up sidecar brakes than good ones. I am not a huge fan...
Claude is spot on- it is all about technique and practice. A sidecar brake can certainly decrease your stopping distance and reduce braking yaw, but it is no substitute for good braking and good cornering skills and lots of practice.
Good post Vernon.
Fact Food for thought:
Good braking can be achived without a sidecar brake under all conditions.
Better braking can be achived with a sidecar brake under the right conditions.
Consistant braking can be achived without a sidecar brake under most all conditions.
Inconsistant braking can be the result with a sidecar brake due to inconsistant conditions.
Emergencies on the road happen under all kinds of conditions.
Braking under all kinds of conditions should be preditable.
You choose 🙂
Gotta agree with Claude here.
Lonnie
