Motorvation Spyder Toe Adjust

Plenk,
Your problem is 'not enough lean-out' not toe-in.
Toe-in keeps the rig from wandering all over the road and too much toe-in wears rear tires out...FAST!
toe-in should be no more than 1/4 " closer in front than back.
more lean-out, away from SC, will make the rig go to the left more, which is what you need.
A normal lean-out is around 2 degrees lean away from the SC ,from straight up and down, with you sitting on the bike.
you will have to do trial and error with this to find the correct amount you need. set it at 2 degrees out,with you on the bike, ride it at the speed you usually do...60-65. if it still pulls to the right, lean it out a little more, and try again.If the rig pulls to the left after setting lean, reduce the lean slightly and try again,same speed ,same road. eventually you will hit the sweet spot for nueteral steering at your speed.

Pete,
With my Turbo RoadKing/HD Spyder rig I used mimimum toe in and 1 degree positive leanout with me (180#) on the seat.
Leanout was measured with a magnetic protractor mounted on a front brake rotor.
This worked for me all over the Western 1/2 of the US and Canada on Freeways to dirt roads, from walking speeds to over a ton.

For finer tuning and different loading I made my minor adjustments with air pressure changes in the Magnum air shock. Worked just like "lectric".

On my Road King with factory TLE chair I also used the 1 degree leanout (contrary to The Motor Company's specs. It also handled well (after the Liberty 5 degree trees were installed).

Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars

I appreciate the advice. I have been using the chart from Hal Kendall p48 that I interpret to mean that more tow in will also reduce pull to the right. I am working with tow because even with 4+ degrees of lean out (which is very uncomfortable) with the angle gauge on the rear rotor I still get the drift to the right. I seem to be chasing my tail on this and am starting to wonder if I am getting dynamic tow out that counteracts my adjustments. I have had the tow in set at ¾, 7/8 and 1 inch.

The other part was for those that have worked with the Motorvation slider tubes –is there a way to adjust them other than loosening all my mounts and trying to bump the front/rear of the car in and out. What a pain. I am wishing the lower connectors were a turn buckle type adjustment like the uppers.

Thanks
Pete

Bob in Wis. is right. Lean out -- lean in will control drifting to right or left. Control it with top turn buckles. I have more than one setting for them, depending on how much weight I put in the hack.

Originally written by plenkway on 6/24/2008 11:26 AM

I appreciate the advice. I have been using the chart from Hal Kendall p48 that I interpret to mean that more tow in will also reduce pull to the right. I am working with tow because even with 4+ degrees of lean out (which is very uncomfortable) with the angle gauge on the rear rotor I still get the drift to the right. I seem to be chasing my tail on this and am starting to wonder if I am getting dynamic tow out that counteracts my adjustments. I have had the tow in set at ¾, 7/8 and 1 inch.

The other part was for those that have worked with the Motorvation slider tubes –is there a way to adjust them other than loosening all my mounts and trying to bump the front/rear of the car in and out. What a pain. I am wishing the lower connectors were a turn buckle type adjustment like the uppers.

Thanks
Pete

Pete, reduce the toe-in [correct spelling] to 1/4" or less...3/4 or 1" is way too much.
are you measuring it correctly?
put an 8' long straight edge along your rear bike tire. about 4" up the sidewall.extend it forward to in front of the front wheel. DO NOT touch the front wheel...most are a smaller width than the rear.
then put another 8' long known straight edge along your SC wheel same distance up. I use a 4X4 block of wood to rest the straight edge on.
extend this also to in front of your SC.
then measure the distance between the front straight edges, just in front of the bike wheel, and across the rear of the straight edges, just behind the rear bike wheel.
the front should be no more than 1/4" narrower than the rear measurement.

Thanks for the spelling correct – I knew it looked wrong.
I will try that method without touching the front tire. As per Motorvation and Kendall I have been lining up the front and rear tires and then measuring from the bottom center of the rim of each to a straight edge against to sidecar wheel. I also use a carpenters square to make sure I measure out at 90% from the tire sidewall to the straightedge.
Any ideas on the sliders?
Pete

The sliders are always a problem even with the chrome plated ones because the protective coatings get spalled, then moisture enters and the rust begins freezing them in place.
I've used a drenching of WD40 or other penetrant, a little time, and tapping with a 2# or 4# hammer using a 2"x4" for a softener so I don't
mark up the sliders. Twisting with a large pipe wrench will also work but it will be hard to keep from digging into the slider tube.

Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars

If the toe in is acceptable after checking it (Use just the rear tire to set your straight edge on) you might try checking the sidecar shock and jacking it up to a higher setting if it is in a lower one. See if it makes a difference.
IMPORTANT: If you adjust lean out with the struts recheck the toe in!!
NOTE: TOE IN will do little to help a pull to the right or left. Think lean left to go left and lean right to go right.
If you lean the bike out with the struts or if you tilt it left by jacking the shock up keep in mind that the sidecar may feel lighter in right handers.
By the way does your Spyder have a conventional swingarm suspension on it? Early ones did not.

What a geart place to come for help!

The side car is from 1997 as best I can tell and has a Progressive Suspension air shock. I understand newer ones use a coil over set up.
I reset toe-in to 7/16" last night. When I get some road time I will carry wrenches to experiment with the lean out and report back.

Will increased lean out increase or decrease toe-in?
Pete

Pete asked:
>>Will increased lean out increase or decrease toe-in?<<

Dependant upon lower mount placements toe in can decrease, increase or remain constant when bike is leaned in or out in relation to the sidecar. It is best to check toe in after lean out is adjusted to see what your particular rig does.

Just a dumb question: Did you check if your back wheel is in line with the bike?
Measure the distances between centre of swing and centre of back wheel bolt, on both sides they should be equal within 1mm = 0,040"

I had a few month ago a super intelligent Nicaraguan mechanics who left the back wheel look outwards (7/16 = 11mm nut further back on the left side then the bolt head on the right side) There was no way to have the rig running straight.
I had to go over the hole bike and fix this together with over a dozen other mistakes. (Like the oil dosing (2 stroker) adjusted for less oil then for a "run in" single bike while it was recently rebuilt and with side car.)
Sometimes people recheck everything with absolute accuracy and forget obvious things like air pressure, steering damper, chain tension (on the floor with normal drivers weight) safety pins or others.

Best regards
Sven Peter

To Pete: You suggested to use a magnetic angle gauge for the adjustment of lean-out. You implied that I could get it at a hardwear store. Now I tried to get one. Nobody there had heard of such an instrument and could not sell me one. Would you remember specifics for that instrumen such as name, manufacturer, store, price?

you can get away by just using a 2' carpenters square.
set the short end on the floor [make sure it is flat] and put the long end up against your rear tire sidewall, just touching on top. there should be about 1/2" clearance at the bottom of the tire sidewall.
this is taken from the left side of the bike. if you have to check from the other side [SC side] then the clearance will be on top of the tire sidewall, with the square touching the lower part of the tire.
you might have to play around getting the square in place, due to saddlebags,swingarms, ETC, but on most bikes, you will find some room to get the square in there.

The magnetic angle gauges (protractors) can be procured from Sears (Craftsman), Home Depot, Lowe's, and most builders supply's tool dep't. and many tool suppliers for less than $10.00.

Lonnie