I am told that a harley with a sidecar with fuel injection yiu need to adjust the timmig to remove any pinging that may be there.
Haven't had that problem. You can't lug them.
Stay in gear a bit more R's before shifting up and don't depend on 6th if there is a hill or a headwind.
Lonnie
ed carlson - 2/10/2010 6:57 PM
I am told that a harley with a sidecar with fuel injection yiu need to adjust the timmig to remove any pinging that may be there.
Which Harley? What year? 4 speed, 5 speed, 6 speed? It all depends on the gearing and the model year. Some of the Harley FL's after 2007 are geared extremely high, although they do have six speeds. They tend to ping when lugged with a load.
My rig is a 2004 FL Ultra 88" engine with 5 speeds. I reduced the gearing from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1 with different motor and clutch sprockets. It won't ping, but then it doesn't ping when ridden solo since compression is stock at 8.9:!.
The newer ones will benefit from lowering of the gearing so that they will pull the rig easier. That will minimize the problem.
Also, if you have changed cams and increased compression, you may experience ping even as a solo. The last thing you need pulling a sidecar is a race-tuned engine. JMO.
Hi Ed,
Like Lonnie mentioned you will want to run the rpm's a bit higher when riding, and depending on the road and speed you are going I am pretty sure you will find yourself down shifting a bit more that a solo bike.
Consider the added weight to the motorcycle, remember that the sidecar is STILL pushing / cutting through the wind, and that in turn will require the motor to work a bit more and depending on the road grade you will be down shifting to get up hill at times especially count on it in a head wind, remember the bike has got only 2 pistons and it's air cooled the only time more gears will help is when you are shifting down.
When I bought my 2001 roadglide and california 3 sidecar the dealer talked him self blue in the face to get me to "upgrade" the motor to the bigger cylinders and cams cause as he said to me you are gonna need it to pull this thing, he also mentioned that I would most likely need a rebuild around 55-60,000 miles with the stock motor I never did and it will turn 70,000 miles this spring uses a bit of oil between oil changes but that's to be expected 😀 I live in western New York and it's not by any means flat land
I just can't see ordering a brand new motorcycle to have a dealer tear the motor apart......but...........lots of people do, I just can't see doing it like that IF the factory offered two size motors like they use to then I would have considered it ,to understand what I mean just go to e-bay motors and type in twin cam in the parts section,you can buy in most cases brand new dealer take off cylinders and cams all day long.
Something to consider doing though is what GNM109 suggested is to change the sprocket gearing although I considered it at one point, I never did, I just look at it like this think of your HD as a truck hauling a load yes you can go fast at times but even with the motor changes I believe you will still need to listen to to the motor and know when it is telling you when to shift.............Bottom line is IF the pinging is related to the motor being lugged it's going to trash the lower end and that = large dollar$ 🙁
hdrghack - 2/13/2010 5:07 AM
Hi Ed,
Like Lonnie mentioned you will want to run the rpm's a bit higher when riding, and depending on the road and speed you are going I am pretty sure you will find yourself down shifting a bit more that a solo bike.
Consider the added weight to the motorcycle, remember that the sidecar is STILL pushing / cutting through the wind, and that in turn will require the motor to work a bit more and depending on the road grade you will be down shifting to get up hill at times especially count on it in a head wind, remember the bike has got only 2 pistons and it's air cooled the only time more gears will help is when you are shifting down.
When I bought my 2001 roadglide and california 3 sidecar the dealer talked him self blue in the face to get me to "upgrade" the motor to the bigger cylinders and cams cause as he said to me you are gonna need it to pull this thing, he also mentioned that I would most likely need a rebuild around 55-60,000 miles with the stock motor I never did and it will turn 70,000 miles this spring uses a bit of oil between oil changes but that's to be expected 😀 I live in western New York and it's not by any means flat land
I just can't see ordering a brand new motorcycle to have a dealer tear the motor apart......but...........lots of people do, I just can't see doing it like that IF the factory offered two size motors like they use to then I would have considered it ,to understand what I mean just go to e-bay motors and type in twin cam in the parts section,you can buy in most cases brand new dealer take off cylinders and cams all day long.
Something to consider doing though is what GNM109 suggested is to change the sprocket gearing although I considered it at one point, I never did, I just look at it like this think of your HD as a truck hauling a load yes you can go fast at times but even with the motor changes I believe you will still need to listen to to the motor and know when it is telling you when to shift.............Bottom line is IF the pinging is related to the motor being lugged it's going to trash the lower end and that = large dollar$ 🙁
When I took delivery on my 88" Ultra in May, 2004, they offered me an "upgrade" to different mufflers. air cleaner and one of their HD downloads to change the ECM mapping for another $1,000. I said "No thanks". My engine remains "unmolested",
The way the machine is it has excellent torque from 1,500 rpm on up. Anything you do to the motor to increase horspower and torque will inevitably move that starting torque point upwards towards 2,000 rpm. That's the last thing I want to do. While I don't ever run in gear at 1,500 rpm, I do often run at 2,000 rpm. The Harley engine has a very limited rpm range at which it can run. Once you reach 4,000 rpm, it isn't fun anymore.
Adding cams and increasing compression is fine for a solo bike. At the ranges encountered wtih a sidecar, it's a total waste of time and money and will inevitable shorten the life of the engine.
By the way, the gearing to which I changed was standard gearing on virtually all of the Evolution series and some of the Twin Cam machines. The original on my machine was 3.15:1. That meant that you couldn't get into 5th gear (top gear) below 60 mph since that was 2,000 rpm. With the dfifferent gearing, I can enter 5th gear at 50-55 mph and still be at 2,000 rpm. Around town I use 4th gear a lot. On the road, I can still cruise at 65 mph at 3,000 rpm.
In order to obtain that gearing, the front sprocket is changed to 24 teeth from the stock 25 and the clutch basket is changed to 37 teeth from 36 teeth. The same chain is used since the length is not changed by removing one tooth on the front and adding one on the rear. It only takes about three hours to maske this change and the difference is dramatic.
I even prefer the lower gearing for the road with the five speed transmission. If I had a six speed, I guess you could stay in the lower gears and avoid changing the gearing overall. Nonetheless, they are gearing the bikes very high anymore to lower emissions. The result, complained of frequently by owners, is increased detonation, engine knock, pinging or pre-ignition (Pick one, LOL)
I have a 2004 UltraClassic w/sidecar I picked up used. I put touring mufflers, an air cleaner, a 24t engine sprocket, (didn't change the clutch basket and the chain still had enough adjustment) and had the stage 1 download done. I didn't do it piecemeal other than getting the stage 1 done. It seemed a noticeable seat of the pants improvement over stock. I didn't have a problem with pinging though. I also didn't lug it. I also have a 99 Road King, solo bike, with the mods the performance of the sidecar rig considering the extra weight isn't that much less than the solo bike.
Thanks, i have a 06 classic with a tle sidecar, screaming eagle pipes and air cleaner, i put the power commander on and put in a six speed, the bike solo runs great, with the side car no problem doing 75 or 80 all day, the cruise in 6th gear does seem to get over whelmed and not constant. a mechanic was talking and said the pinging could cause damage. I was in a local HD dealer and they have a ready to install 5 gallon aux tank and pump and wiring that they sell. the tank fits under the tub
