Should the frame height of the tug and the frame height of the hack be the same...?
I know that is probably an odd question for you folks but I am trying to understand the geometry of my Guzzi / Velorex rig... The two seem to be match fairly well for weight and all that however...
I have been plagued with a situation on the front of this rig since I have owned it. The front / lower strut is bent... !
I replaced it and set the car up again, thinking that the previous owner had not had it properly done ( As if I were an expert... ) This lead me to chasing a couple of other issues not least of which, the sliding clamp was not tight giving me the fits over the cycles lean...
The strut is a gain bending... ! !
Well, it finally came to me here a couple of days ago that the front fork legs are too high making this uneven height situation...
Concur...?
Thanks,
Rob
The front lower 'strut'is the bent piece that you adjust toe in at right? What is bent? If it is the threaded part maybe it was just extended too far and when the typical Velorex lower rear sliding mount slipped it overloaded the front one?
As far a frame height goes on a sidecar that is nto really adjustable for rid eheight I like to keep the fram elevel from side to side and let it fall where ever it may in relation to the height of th ebike frame.
If I misunderstood your post forgive me.
Claude,
I should have posted this photo earlier... Sorry, I was not clear but you have it right, the threaded clevis that is the front/lower mount is what developed the bend... twice... !
The first time was when I was not aware of the sliding clamp, the second time I had figured that out ( I think with help from this group..) Repositioned the clamp and tightened it well, realigned the car for toe in and set the lean... I actually put a piece of tape on the frame and the clamp with a mark to see if the clamp was moving...
The adjustment I spoke of would come from raising the fork tubes on the motorcycle triple trees to lower the front of the motorcycle and more closely match the height of the sidecar frame and possibly stop this bending bolt that is happening. Does that make sense that the two frame height differences would cause this...?
Thanks much for the input,
Rob
BTW, this photo is of the first time that the clevis bent... the second time has no been as bad and I think it is due to the discovery of the sliding clamp being loose, well, not tight.
All right,
Thanks again,
rd
Rob,
Frame to frame heigth is a non issue. leveling the sidecar is desireable.
Fork legs can be pushed up into the trees to help reduce trail but be careful not to go so far as to have the front fender causing turning interference upon full front end compression.
The only time I've seen a lower clevis bolt bent like that is when no upper strut was used. That bolt won't support the car well without good triangulation of all 4 mounts.
Do you have more pix of the other fastening points and overall views of the mountings?
If so it might help in sorting out your problems.
Lonnie Cook
Northwest Sidecar
nwsidecar@aol.com
Lonnie,
Will these help...?
I can also post a couple of another Guzzi near here that has a bit of a different take on where to attach the lower "J" mount in front. His is nice and level...
Good point about the front fork and the chance of interference.
Back soon...
Thanks,
Rob
Me again...
These are from another Guzzi, virtually the same as mine sans the front fork... with a Velorex 700 mounted.
The "J" mount is attached at the lower frame rail vs the frame bolt junction where mine is.
One question I have about this set up is will the farther set back lower mount, albeit slight, make a stability issue...? That is, will the distance now between the lower mounts including the sliding mount cause a problem...? Is it better to have more distance between the mounts at the lower end...?
Looks like it would be better to me as that lower mount is flat but I need a sanity check before I move it... What do you think..?
Thanks much,
rd
I can't figure out how to post a pic with my reply so I'll put some mounting alternatives in albums.
Lonnie
Just a couple of thoughts here. Make sure there is plenty of threads left in the stuts themselves. Maybe Lonnie can elaborate on this. Also, if the threaded part of the J clamps continues to be an issue of concern you could make the tubular part of the clamp where the threaded part goes through it longer. This would support the threaded portion better. Keep a close eye on the mounting point at the frame connector. If it begins to 'work' it could cause fatigue there and you do not want that. Without a subframe I would prefer to use a strap clamp there or a modified one if you still wanted to pick up the frame connector bolt. Probably a lower placed strap clamp my be better if you can still get the sidecar frame level from side to side and the wheel lead that you want. I have used the frame connector bolt point before on Guzzis as a subframe mounting point but it was not 'standing alone' so to speak. Dunno if it is good or bad the way yours is but I sure woudl keep an eye on it. Yes, I do use a subframe on these bikes. Just finished one in the shop now. Main reason is so the mounts can be spaced out the way I want them. The upper rear, to me, has always been the one to try and get positioned and secured well. I also like to have the lower rear back a ways. The subframe allows this. It is a three piece unit that bolts together. It is attached to the centerstand mounting bolts, the front frame connection bolt area and also the front motormount bolt as well as the flat bracket that comes down from that area. The upper rear is a tube coming up and back from the lower horizontal tube. It attaches to the area near the shock up top. The upper front mount does not utlize the subframe but uses a strap clamp positioned as high as possible. The guzzi frame has two cross members in this area and strength is not an issue there. I do not use the Velorex lower mounts on this setup. Overkill? Probably....Not saying you need this but thought it worth mentioning.
>>>One question I have about this set up is will the farther set back lower mount, albeit slight, make a stability issue...? That is, will the distance now between the lower mounts including the sliding mount cause a problem...? Is it better to have more distance between the mounts at the lower end...?<<< Lower mounts being farther apart will add more strength to the whole assemobly...if that sliding mount and the tube connected to it is secure. Keep an eye out for hinge points on the tube! It is a poor design overall and may tend to move.
Claude,
Have a look at the second set of photos of the other Guzzi with the strap type clamp on the lower rail... Again, the only issue there, if I'm getting this right is that the spread on the car's frame will not be quite as much and that is not desirable.
It is not a must that I use the frame connector so that is not a big ta-do...
So, can I get some more info and see some photos of this sub-frame that I keep hearing about... 🙂
Thanks,
Rob
Rob,
Did you check out the pix I posted in the albums under Hacks #6?
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 11/28/2006 7:57 PM
Rob,
Did you check out the pix I posted in the albums under Hacks #6?Lonnie
Lonnie,
I had not.... I did not know if you had posted some or where they were...
That is great, the lower / front mount is exactly like the one I posted a couple of posts back... The Guzzi Stone with the strap clamp on the lower rail.
So I take it that the rear sub-frame helps keep the spread on the car frame as the front mount is now farther back...? It actually does not appear to be much farther back, mine uses the rear peg mount for the rear / lower. It does however, appear lower, under the canister.
I also could not see the other side of the sub-frame. It must bolt into the center stand bolt pattern on both sides...?
Well sweet, this is very encouraging... Very substainial fabrication.
I also got a kick out of the other Guzzi with the "J" mount inverted... What 's with that...?
Thanks,
Rob
Rob,
Each sidecar installation is a little different. The Stone, Metal, Titanium, etc. all have minor trim pieces and other differences to work around. Pannier clearance, different exhaust and accessories, and desired sidecar placement all come into play. Clients also have different ideas on car rake angles at times.
Lonnie
