Originally written by Mark in Idaho on 7/17/2007 9:51 PM
Sven,
With the tank behind the seat, gravity does all the work. If I put the tank anywhere else, I would have to run a fuel pump. As it is set up now, I can remove the tank and put on the passenger seat in about 3 minutes.And as I mentioned before, it cost under $30 for parts. Of course my time is never a factor, this is my therapy.
I set up my 85 K100 bike over the winter, and was told I needed a fuel pump, bacause the bike tank is presurized, with the fuel injection.
so...I bought, and installed, a FP inline next to the Aux tank behind my solo saddle.also added a switch on the dash panel.
after getting the bike out this spring I found out no pump is needed. just open the valve next to the aux tank and the gas gravity feeds into the bike tank..simple!!
so ,I have 9.5 gals now , with 32 MPG...around 280 mile range, but my 67 yr old butt dont last that long..usually I stop at around 100 miles for rest, food or gas.
Bob wrote:
>>snip....I have 9.5 gals now , with 32 MPG...around 280 mile range, but my 67 yr old butt dont last that long..usually I stop at around 100 miles for rest, food or gas.<<<<
Even so not HAVING to stop or maybe search for a gas station in rural areas on a sunday afternoon is sure a good feeling. No need to run a tank dry but also no need to worry about it...xtra fuel is always a good idea with a rig.
Originally written by Mark in Idaho on 7/17/2007 4:56 PM
I did mine a little like Bob in Wisconsin. I bought a plastic 3 gallon marine fuel tank for about $25. I put a "T" with a shut off valve in the stock fuel line between the main tank petcock and the carbs. I added an external siphon bulb to the outside that I can reach and activate on the fly. I tried painting it to match the bike, but it immediately peeled off. I then found a gym bag that was big enough to fit the tank and hid the crummy paint job.
The bag gives me back some of the lost storage for things I don't mind smelling like gas. I also modified my main tank to hold 1 more gallon. I carry 9 gallons of fuel now. It used to be 5 gallons. I recently did a 150 mile back country ride without stopping for gas. I drove around doing local errands for a couple more days before filling it back up.
nice setup Mark..heres a pic of mine with the bag over the gravity fed tank..it also has small pockets in front and rear for gloves and other small stuff.
also room inside next to the tank for 'stuff'
http://tinyurl.com/2kcaex
Originally written by claude #3563 on 7/17/2007 10:37 PM
Bob wrote:
>>snip....I have 9.5 gals now , with 32 MPG...around 280 mile range, but my 67 yr old butt dont last that long..usually I stop at around 100 miles for rest, food or gas.<<<<Even so not HAVING to stop or maybe search for a gas station in rural areas on a sunday afternoon is sure a good feeling. No need to run a tank dry but also no need to worry about it...xtra fuel is always a good idea with a rig.
yup, thats the main reason I have the aux tank. nice top have along...when I need it.... I rarely use it on local riding, but occaisionally fill my bike tank with it overnight to use it up and add fresh gas.
with the aux tank, no need to plan stops according to the gas stations and need for gas...I just plan for rests and food. if a gas station is at a food place I top it off. if not, no worry...I have plenty along till next stop.
My Motorvation sidecar came with the optional fuel tank. It's about a four gallon tank permanently mounted in the trunk with a fuel pump.
The setup was straightforward and it works Ok. The Valk is gravity fed and a simple t fitting brings the pressurized fuel from the aux tank.
I was concerned about one thing though. The Valk has no fuel gage and if I turn on the fuel pump with the Valk's tank not on reserve, I could pump too much fuel into the tank............I could and did. Driving around with brain fade until somone yelled at me about losing fuel. Dumb! The Valk ran fine but I had to siphon the fuel out until it was below the neck overflow. I could probably figure out a fail safe wiring method but I think that I'll just try to use what's between my ears. By the way, the tank has a good cap. I never smell any gas when i open the trunk lid.
Originally written by Henry R on 7/17/2007 12:26 PM
......I was thinking of using wide velcro staps for hold downs or plumbers tape with thumbscrews....
A subject I've been addressing since my ride to Sturgis and back, extra fuel. You might check with your local medical handicap supply store who carry electric handicap scooters. They use a very wide, maybe 4", Velcro strap to hold the batteries in place. I've use 'em in several applications and the fuel tank thing sound like a likely candidate.
o~o
I used heavy duty "Zip Ties" with a bungi cord back up. That way I don't have a lot of time invested when I change my mind and move to plan "B".
You guys scare the s*** out of me! Plastic fuel tanks, bungee cords, ZIP TIES! I know that YOU could never have an accident but what is some bozo in a car talking on his cell phone turns in front of you? Have you considered what will happen to you auxiliary fuel bombs…er tanks in a crash? Why do riders who are usually sane and even careful put jury rigged tanks with gallons of explosive fuel on their bikes without even worrying about it? The safety aspect of some of these home brewed tanks is really scary. It’s a good thing you hide the tanks in cloth bags, I’d be nervous parking near you in a hot parking lot.I just bought a rig that has an auxiliary tank, stainless steel, eight gallons, mounted under the sidecar within the frame depth. I haven’t hooked it up because I’m concerned about the safety of the thing. I think I’ll get some sort of bash plate in place before I fill it. I’ve been watching the posts about the Iron Butt. Most of those guys use some sort of modified tank or auxiliary tank and the IBA has a strict set of rules about how they are constructed and mounted. Strangely, they don’t mention zip ties.
Mine is aluminum and is strapped in with two straps on the rear back side and one on each passenger handhold. Only thing I suppose in a collision the vent could overflow and catch fire but would never rupture and burst like maybe plastic would. The only problem I have had is the rubber O-ring that seals the connection on top of the main tank has let go and spilled gas under the rig. Today I got a O-ring from NAPA that is supposed to withstand gas.
Ralph
Originally written by Al Olme on 8/21/2007 5:05 PM
You guys scare the s*** out of me! Plastic fuel tanks, bungee cords, ZIP TIES! I know that YOU could never have an accident but what is some bozo in a car talking on his cell phone turns in front of you? Have you considered what will happen to you auxiliary fuel bombs…er tanks in a crash? Why do riders who are usually sane and even careful put jury rigged tanks with gallons of explosive fuel on their bikes without even worrying about it? The safety aspect of some of these home brewed tanks is really scary. It’s a good thing you hide the tanks in cloth bags, I’d be nervous parking near you in a hot parking lot.I just bought a rig that has an auxiliary tank, stainless steel, eight gallons, mounted under the sidecar within the frame depth. I haven’t hooked it up because I’m concerned about the safety of the thing. I think I’ll get some sort of bash plate in place before I fill it. I’ve been watching the posts about the Iron Butt. Most of those guys use some sort of modified tank or auxiliary tank and the IBA has a strict set of rules about how they are constructed and mounted. Strangely, they don’t mention zip ties.
From Iron Butt Assn. Website:
Auxillary Fuel Systems
In addition to the list of manufacturers of approved auxiliary fuel tanks in the IBA rules, there is a footnote in the IBA Rules that says, "Other manufacturer's cells may also be acceptable. Please call us with the details and we will try and get them certified for use as quickly as possible." There are many, many aux tanks in that category, including a rear-mounted K1200LT aluminum tank design that Kevin Chase builds, and custom aux cell applications by BLM-Accessories.
If you want to get a custom tank approved by IBA, you basically have to get Dale Wilson (IBA Chief Inspector) or Tom Austin (IBA Technical Advisor) to inspect it. If it's fabricated from steel or aluminum, we are basically going to be looking for adequate wall thickness (i.e., no flexing under thumb pressure); adequate looking welds that appear leak-free; a robust mounting system that appears to be sufficient to restrain the tank during an accident; a venting system that does not appear likely to expell liquid fuel onto the exhaust system when the bike is parked in the sun or tipped over; securely attached ports for fuel lines and vents; secure connections for all fuel and vent lines, and a securely mounted gas cap. If it's a system that contains a bladder, we will allow a somewhat flexible metal enclosure. If it's a fiberglass tank, we may do a lot of tugging on the fittings attached to it to make sure they are secure.
Before a list of approved tanks is posted for use by other rallies, there will probably be an amendment to the IBA rule language to delete the reference to the tanks being "certified". Proof that a custom tank will be "safe" requires far more comprehensive testing than is practical for the IBA to do. No Original Equipment Manufacturer would release a new fuel tank without destructive testing (e.g., deliberately crashing the bike with the tank attached). Obviously, The IBA can not do that. Our inspection of a custom tank is therefore limited to identifying obvious defects that we think make the tank unsafe.
Originally written by Al Olme
You guys scare the s*** out of me! Plastic fuel tanks, bungee cords, ZIP TIES!
Al, I do understand and appreciate your safety concerns. I also think we need to maintain an open mind about this and evaluate each on its own merits. For example there are zip ties readily available now that are 1/4" to 1/2" wide and even bigger with locking and breaking strengths in excess of 500 lbs. Comparable to or better than most steel clamps. Many Dodge trucks have had plastic fuel tanks from the factory since the '70's. It's really all about the individual application.
I've built some really nice semi-permanent aux tanks using racing fuel cells with roll over vents and break away sealing fittings. I've also made do with a modified plastic boat gas tank and some ratcheting cargo straps when I needed something for trip but didn't want to spend the time, energy, or (especially) the money for a more permanent device.
I know you to be something of a perfectionist, Al, and I tend to admire that as I usually over engineer things myself. But I also admire the work of my fellow tinkerers who dream up homemade solutions to their problems using what they have at hand. It's the line somewhere between the genius of the Wright Bros. and the silliness of Red Green that we need to use when judging the results.
Now, if we could just incorporate that "bash plate" into a trailer hitch / cooler rack mount...
Al,
Your post has caused me to stop and review my modifications.
I did in fact consider the safety issue.
The spare tank is a work in progress. I am striving to improve my system over time. Since my last post I replaced the bag with a Goldwing hard case The tank I chose is an "approved?" marine auxillary fuel tank. Yes it's the same plasic used as the main fuel tank on some motocross bikes. Any container that is full of liquid is likely to rupture if impacted with enough force. Steel is not much better than plastic in this respect. The placement of the tank is the major consideration. Being a gravity feed system limits my choices. I placed it high enough on the back to be out of reach of all but the big SUV's and semi trucks. If I get rear ended by one of those with enough force to rupture my tank, I won't notice any exploding fuel.
The 5 "heavy duty zip ties I used are rated at 120 pounds each. With the tank resting in a cradle inside the hard case I trust their combined strength. I do however plan on a more permanent attachment in the future.
Safety is a relative subject. Traveling on the highway is inherently unsafe . SUV's might be safer than small cars, which are safer than motorcycles. Where do we draw the line. The factory fuel tank may well be safer than the home brewed auxillery tank by virtue of its placement. If all fuel tanks are "bombs", why do we trust the factorys to place them between our legs.
Guys,I've heard "good" auxiliary tank applications in this thread and I've heard some that sounded shakey to me. Mark is right when it comes to placement. Placement is key and that's why manufacturers put them between our legs [or under our bottoms]. In the "classic' placement, the tank is protected as well as it can be by the front forks. the frame, the rider and the back of the bike. Many of the gravity auxiliary tanks are placed on a rear rack, that leaves them very vulnerable in a crash. Not just a "rear ender" but also any sort of a flip. Consider adding a pump and going for safer placement. The extra complexity is a good trade off for a safer installation. On a sidecar rig, using the saddle bag between the bike and the car is a reasonable choice. It's lower [better weight distribution] and more protected. If you don't want to give up your saddle bag, a simple tank on the sidecar frame rail is a decent alternative; even lower [lower is better] and also well protected.I'm not so sure that I agree about plastic and metal being equal in puncture situations but without data, I can't take a stand. I does seem to make sense that metal would perform better in puncture situations but like I said...no data. Zip ties, even huge zillion pound rated zip ties are still subject to deterioration from sun light and ozone, metal clamps not so much.I applaude all the folks who have the ingenuity to develop mods for their bikes and I love to see the things folks come up with. It just makes sense that they should be thinking about safety FIRST, not as an after thought. Bob M., your tanks with bladders and flip over valves are the right way to think about auxiliary tanks. Plastic tanks are not necessarily bad but look at the Dodge truck example; the tank is plastic but it is surrounded by metal frame members and it sits in a generally protected area, not tied to the back bumper.It's like riding in general. If you ride like you're invisible, you'll probably stand a better chance of not becoming a statistic. When you rig a auxiliary tank, plan on an accident and design accordiingly [then do your best not to have one].
I pretty much agree with Al here. Many years ago my son had an old Amphicat and I had a Honda Odyssey FL350. The Amphicat had a heavy plastic fuel tank with a plastic thread on filler cap situated behind the driver. One day, he was in the cat and his cousin on the Honda chasing each other around the yard. At one point JD stopped quickly and Carl ran in to the back of him at maybe 5 mph. The cap on the Amphicat flew straight up in the air followed by a geyser of gasoline. The weight and inertia of the Honda pushed the Amphicat ahead and Carl got a gasoline bath. Fortunately the Honda was rear engined and that gas never hit the hot motor, but we got him out of it in a hurry. His parents were not real happy with me.
There was no damage to either the gas tank or the cap so I assumed it was just not tight when it happened. A few weeks later JD was running around the yard and swerved to avoid the dog, hitting a light pole dead center and once again the cap flew straight up, followed by a stream of gas. That time we replaced the tank with an aluminum one.
I went to a Alum tank for safety and mounted between the sidecar and the bike well away from possible damage in a accident, it's a simple matter of using a elc. fuel pump and putting a T in the gas line, the fuel pump has a built in check valve so the gas from the tank won't flow from the upper tank to the lower, in my case it added 3 1/2 gallons. I got my tank from http://www.coyote-gear.com and I used a small elc. fuel pump sold under the name of Mr. Gasket, the tank comes with metal tie downs and IMHO I would never use plastic ties, there not made to tie down a hard object, you can get them tight but there not tight a what ever there holding will move, if your going to do it, do it right and you won't have to worry about it everytime you hit a bump.
