Thanks Tod & Claude
My EML rig has rock solid sidecar mounts to the mule, and my GL1100 has a full frame. I don't have any slop that I can detect. I'm sure any is very minimal.
Thanks Tod for that explanation of rear tire wear. I do understand what's going on, and the direction of the slip on the mule's drive tire. My take on that condition, using north woods engineering and southern intuition, is that the wear should have been on the leading edge of the tire tread, not the following side. Interesting to see real world conditions, namely your BMW plus my rig shows the same wear pattern.
I'm running 135-15's on the sidecar and steer wheels, and 165-15 on the mule's drive wheel-all of them car tires. I now have a HT Wheels rear wheel on the mule, after the EML wheel broke welds. I still have the original EML welded tubular spoke wheels on the other two wheels.
I've suspected it's a good idea to change the lean of the sidecar wheel. I have a friend from the Dakotas who also mounts sidecars, and he does like to see the sidecar wheel tilted towards the mule, if at all possible.
Mike that 165 is taller than the 135 so it would lift the rear of the bike up some. That alone could change things in the setup.
As far as wear pattens go it should also be taken into account thant many will rip around left handers a lot different than right handers. This will creeate wear on the right side of the rear tire. Especailly true on soft sprung rigs and/or rigs with no swaybar.
I think it would be very interesting to get a rig up onto a straight section of interstate. let the tires cool down and then do a straightline run at speed over a few miles. Then stop and take a temperature reading at varius places across the rear tire. Oh well, just a thought.
Tod, you certainly have a great way of explaing things. Keep those posts coming.
Mike: I have more wear on the inside of my sidecar tire than the outside... recently looking at it I noticed that my sidecar tire is tipped toward the inside at the top and that is probably where the tire wear is coming from. Pain in the rear to correct this on my rig.... basically take everything apart from the bike and raise the sidecar on the bike side. 2006 Suzuki S83 and Texas Ranger.
Pics of my rig posted under albums.... keyssidecar
Jerry
Originally written by keyssidecar on 2/9/2007 9:31 AM
Mike: I have more wear on the inside of my sidecar tire than the outside... recently looking at it I noticed that my sidecar tire is tipped toward the inside at the top and that is probably where the tire wear is coming from. Pain in the rear to correct this on my rig.... basically take everything apart from the bike and raise the sidecar on the bike side. 2006 Suzuki S83 and Texas Ranger.
Pics of my rig posted under albums.... keyssidecar
Jerry
Jerry,
This is not that uncommon. Heck less rolling resistance right? 🙂 If you can deal with the tire wear you might be better off just leaving it alone.
We have noticed that on some sidecars the mounting tower for the swingarm pivot is not 90 degrees to the sidecar frame. If you get the siedecar fram elevel from side to side the sidecar wheel is not vertical. From my experience Velorex sidecars, especially, seem to vary somewhat from hack to hack, at least on the older ones. Dunno about Bob's sidecars for sure but I bet they are dead on.
Originally written by gnm109 on 2/4/2007 9:00 AM
I read the recent article in Cycle World by Peter Egan about the trip he took with his wife in a Ural. It has a selectable 2WD but there is no differential. Therefore, he was advised by the distributor that he should only use the 2WD on soft ground, not on the pavement.Your system sounds more sophisticated.
GNM109
It all depends on what you hope to accomplish with the two-wheel-drive mode...
If you are looking for ultimate traction in loose conditions NOT having a differential is better.
A differential allows the wheel with less traction to spin and not drive the the wheel with higher traction. As evidenced by what happens when a differential sidecar flies the chair...
The differential drive will give you a little better tracking than a standard rig, but a fixed axle 2WD unit will give the best overall traction. They talk about not using it that way on hard surfaces because of tire scrubbing and stress on the drive unit when trying to turn.
I have been going back and forth about possibly getting a 2WD setup for winter use, but can't decide which drive system would be better. I have been leaning towards the selectable 2WD with fixed axle drive for better traction on snowy roads, but I would need to be careful about using it in situations where the pavement transitions between wet/slick and dry.
Claude: Bob has offered to set it up right for the price of lunch. Can't beat that deal. So on my way back to Michigan from the Keys in May I am going to Texas and have him take care of it. Just about 2 days out of my way, so no big deal. I am retired so not all that much better to do anyway. Will ride the rig down here as it is for now... tracking straight anyway.... may have to flip the tire around before spring. As you said less tire on the ground less friction.
Jerry
Sounds like a winner Jerry. Bob is a great guy and no doubt working with him will clear your concerns. Be careful though as he can eat. Tell him the jerk in Pa. said hello. Let us know how you make out.
I will let him know Claude says HI
I have been going back and forth about possibly getting a 2WD setup for winter use, but can't decide which drive system would be better. I have been leaning towards the selectable 2WD with fixed axle drive for better traction on snowy roads, but I would need to be careful about using it in situations where the pavement transitions between wet/slick and dry.
You could put independently operated brakes on the rear wheel of the tug and the hack. If a wheel started to spin on a slippery surface, you could just brake a little on the spinning wheel and the diff. would transfer the torque to the unbraked wheel. Put the two rear brake pedals close together, so that you can push them both at the same time for even brakeing.
Dave
One of the problems with (at least the earlier URAL's) the differentials was that if one was on the throttle when the chair was aloft then landed, there was a possibility of breakage.
Lonnie
Claude
I received an email notification of this thread, motivating me to read through it. I see the quote and your response below concerning sidecar wheel camber.
Last fall I had a shim made up for my sidecar wheel, and it's now vertical. Previously the top of the sidecar wheel tilted out. As a result of the effect the shim has on performance of my rig, I've adjusted the lean of the mule to a bit under 1* outward lean. My toe in is reduced too, to about 3/8". The rig has absolutely no pull most of the time - I can operate it no handed sometimes. I've even experienced a little pull to the left, meaning I can reduce outward lean even more.
So yes, the camber of the sidecar wheel does make a difference. I will be watching to see how/if this effects the wear of my mule drive tire.
Originally written by claude #3563 on 2/6/2007 10:36 PM
Mike wrote:One issue I have in suspect is that my sidecar wheel has lean to it, lean away from the sidecar and mule. This might be an issue, but I'm not sure if/what it will do to the performance or tire wear. The sidecar wheel lean wouldn't be difficult to change, with some shims. My rig has two plates and six bolts on a plate where the sidecar suspension mounts to the sidecar frame - used for toe in adjustment. I can have tapered shims manufactured and placed between these plates. I'm not sure if this is a critical issue or not. It's suspect because logic says the sidecar wheel lean should contribute to pull to the right. Maybe my strange drive tire wear is effected by this, but I don't understand how.====================================================Sidecar wheel lean is very seldom mentioned bu tit can be an advantage or a disadvatage. The sidecar wheel should be vertical as a rule although leaning it in towars th esidecar at th etop can be advantageous. The only one I have seen mention it here has been Vernon Wade. I have built a couple of rigs and purposely leaned the sidecar wheel in slightly and ,yes, it does take pull away, allows less leanout to be run and you can reduce toe in a little more dependant upon the geometry of the sidecar swingarm and it's pivot. I may be wrong but if you were to make that wheel vertical or lean it in some I think you could run less toe in and less leanout than you have now. It probably will get rid or you rtire wear delima too. Don't hurt to try and at least on that EML you can do it without it being a major deal.
now i am new to sidecar riding.... i have a 99 yamaha royal star venture 1300 with a champion escort sidecar attached....
what i need to know is... not that the bike walks all over the road cause it tracks perfect it seems to me... but it seems that the bike is always at a lean to the left, not much but you can see it even when it is parked
is this the way they are supposed to be set up or does mine need some sort of adjustment... when i ride alone i have the tilt all they way down and have some ballast in the sidecar not much but some.. and i have
experienced as you all would call flying the chair.. a few times seemingly when i am stopped and then have to make a right hand turn.. now in right hand curves all is fine... just need advise on the seems the bike is leaning to the left or if this is normal all is fine yalls imput is very much appreciated...........
also is there any sidecar associations in north carolina i live in concord, n.c. myself
thanks,
BigLou
When it is parked you probably don't have the crown of the road in the visual. The leanout will make the bike appear vertical on a crowned road. Without it the bike will head toward the shoulder if you relax the steering.
Most sidecars with tilt control are set up with the tilt mechanism at the bottom position, sidecar frame level with the ground (from side to side) and anywhere from 1 to 3 degrees of bike leanout depending on manufacturer.
I've found that 1+ degrees leanout with bike and sidecar loaded normally works well with most single passenger combos.
If it's tracking well andd the car tire isn't showing signs of an odd wear pattern you're probably OK.
One of our clients who used armor-all on his Harley Ultra seat with a (Hannigan) recommended 3 degree leanout felt like he was sliding off the left side of the seat. I reset the leanout to 1+ degrees and all was well.
Lonnie
thanks, hack
i knew it was tracking good down the road even when riding i can relax and actually let go of one hand no problems
i am having the kliktronic device installed this week it is in the shop now at A Wing And A Chair in Monroe, N.C.
now as to the second part of the question any of the sidecar association in north carolina anywhere close to concord, n.c.
