Thanks for all of your replies ..... I feel like I opened a hornets nest here,by asking about the brakes, I assure you that was not my intent. I am simply trying to be certain I understand as much as I can about my rig.
That said, here's what I think I'll do. I think I will use it as is while I try to figure out if it is possible to put disc brakes on the velorex?, and at what cost? After I sort all that out I can make an intelligent choice.
thanks again
You need to ask yourself how will you use your rig. If only you will be riding it will be no need for sidecar brakes (most likely). If you will carry passenger in sidecar (or heavy load) it will be helpful to have sidecar brake. Some do separate brake pedal to the right of bike brake pedal and cable to drum brake.
its not a hornets nest really. its a matter of the fact that the manufacturers of the motorcycles stopped doing the engineering to attach sidecars. many sidecars currently made were actually designed to fit to bikes long ago. so the brakes don't mesh properly. harley stopped making them a few years ago - everybody else a very long time ago. so sidecars are manufactured to fit as wide a variety of bikes possible. if the sidecar brake is too large or too small there are issues. many just toss them out rather than go though the expense of making it right. basically the entirety of the issue is that it can be real money to make it work right. the other problem is that to stop straight the sidecar brake has to be "just a little" over strong so that when both front and rear brakes are applied hard its even. the sidecar brake connected to the bike rear brake *SHOULD* make the bike pull to the right a little bit - not a lot just some so that when both are used its even. as i said the other day - at this point in time everybody can do whatever they want to do. as for me i run a sidecar brake - and ill never ever tell anybody not to run a sidecar brake.
Please excuse me for chuckling a bit, but some questions will evoke 50 different answers from 50 different people!
I like what VLAD had to say about how it all depends on how you will use your sidecar. Unloaded, the braking needs will be much different than when it is heavily loaded, so there's no way to have a well coordinated brake on the sidecar in all situations. I much prefer the separate brake pedal for the sidecar, but then I have a lot of racing experience where we learn to rock our foot on the brake and throttle at the same time.
I'm hearing a lot of bad vibes about drum brakes. I sure won't argue that discs are much better, but drums are a very acceptable brake. If they aren't strong enough, then that only means the leverage ratio is all wrong on the pedal and should be re-worked for higher leverage. As long as the drum brake is well maintained, just as the disc brake needs to be, too, it is a fine brake. A LOT of cars today still use drum brakes on the rear. As far as cable actuation on the drum brake, all it needs is to be kept well maintained to work just fine. The effectiveness of a drum brake is all just a matter of being set up correctly and being well maintained. As Jay says, if a disc brake is too sensitive and overpowering, it means the rotor is too large. That can be changed. But, on a drum brake, the drum size can't be changed, but it's pedal pivot point can be moved to alter how much effort it takes to actuate the brake.
I have a Vetter Terraplane with the Airheart 175 series disc brake. It has a fairly large rotor and was a bit too powerful for average stops, so I replaced the caliper with the smaller 150 series caliper used on go-karts. I also moved the pedal pivot to require more pedal pressure to actuate the brake. My pedal rests right next to my bike's rear brake pedal. There is a gap between them that allows me to use either one separately, or both together, allowing me to rock my foot side-to-side for braking balance. It does take practice to do that though. And, when I have my 260lb nephew in my car, I REALLY appreciate having that brake!
Stan, my best suggestion would be to have the brake available, keep it well maintained so it works reliably and smoothly, and think about having it connected to a separate pedal and learn how to manage that arrangement. A sidecar brake coordinated with the bike's brakes will only be a compromise at best.
I have a BMW R1150RT with a Champion Escort. Not a real large rig but not a small one either. I don't have a brake on the sidecar but would like one. The bike stops fine with out it, both loaded and empty. My main fear is riding on the interstate, 70 or so mph, in the rain and suddenly needing to come to a stopped, like for an accident a couple of cars in front of you. Have not had to do a panic stop in the rain at high speed but just know that I would feel better with the sidecar brake when it does happen. Just my $0.02.
This isn't going to help you feel any better. IF you have an effective disc brake on your sidecar and you are driving down that imaginary highway at speed, in the rain and the sidecar isn't loaded, in a panic stop, the sidecar brake is going to lock up and become totally ineffective. Further, since the wheel is not spinning and adding to directional stability, the sidecar wheel will act like a ball bearing and will do little to nothing to keep the rig going straight.
I'm in favor of sidecar brakes but you can't depend on them to save you in an emergency. They are simply one factor in a complex combination of equipment and skills that keep you safe on the road. Ideally, the amount of braking you get on the sidecar brake would be variable based on the load and road conditions. That's why the folks who run a separate sidecar brake pedal believe they have it figured out. There might be someone out there with the reflexes of a jet fighter pilot who can actually make that work in the split second that it needs to... but I doubt it. At the end of the day, you prepare as well and you can, drive with all our skill and hope that combination will bring you home safe.
Okay, now my head is just spinning 😉 I think I'll stick with my most recent plan..... thanks for the input
I got a Sportster with a Velorex never used the brake and have since completely removed it. That little drum brfake didnt impress me and to have two brake pedals just seemed like an accident waiting to happen .
Fascinating discussion. I been a sidecarist for over 45 years and, with the exception of when I raced an outfit, I've never had a sidecar brake. However with my GL1500 and Oxford outfit I'm wondering if now is the time.
I don't fancy the sidecar wheel locking up when it's unladen (that used to happen on the racing outfit when the passengers weight wasn't over the wheel, all you got was a lot of smoke and large flat spots on the tyre) so would a relatively low efficiency sidecar wheel brake linked to the one front and the rear disc be worth the trouble and expense?
Sid
I once had a GL1500 Oxford rig, knowing the Oxford I would hook up the brake as you never know what you will be tempted to have in the sidecar. I once took my wife and I and two other couples to dinner in our rig, 6 adults in all. Another time just riding around a fairgrounds I ended up with 7 kids in the sidecar. Granted in the fairgrounds it really did not matter if I had a brake or not as I did not get out of first gear you just never know what you may do down the road.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Four adults in an Oxford, they must have been "close" friends.
I have been told that original Mini brake disc fits the Oxford hub does anyone know if that's true?
Sid
Jay, I wish you had taken a pic of that rig loaded like that! Might have made a great promotional pic for how strong your rigs are put together. You're talking about well over 1000lbs of "meat" in/on that rig! Yep, a brake needed for sure!
I am certainly not an expert, on sidecars or brakes. But I have real life experience I would like to tell you about. My first sidecar rig was a 91 Gold Wing with a Champion Escort sidecar, the brake was there but not hooked up. In a panic stop I locked up the front wheel, the sidecar pushed me to the left and I totaled the bike and sidecar, plus tearing parts of both wrists and hands, the base of both thumbs are still not attached to my wrists, limiting my grip. In a panic stop, if I have a choice of the sidecar pushing me to the left, or pulling me to the right, I'll take right every time. I am now on my fourth rig and have a 13 Ural Patrol, with a disk brake on the front wheel, and mechanical drum brakes on the rear and the sidecar, not the best brakes around, but seem to stop straight and are able to handle the Ural with a top speed of 65 okay. Get all the information you can, really try to decide if the sidecar brake is best for your riding style, or not.
I just saw this discussion and thought I would add my experience with a GL1800 & Escort rig. I had done some testing with and without the sidecar brake connected. You can read it in this post, stroll back up to the top of the discussion.
jaydmc - 3/12/2016 10:35 AM
Brakes on a sidecar are always a good idea, any one who say's that they are not usually has no clue as to how to hook up a brake and as such tells you that you do not need or want a brake on a sidecar. Any thing that might keep you out of an emergency room is a good idea. However the drum brake like much else on the Velorex leaves a lot to be desired. Why they keep selling a mechanical drum brake sidecar in an era when only a few bikes still have drum brakes on the rear gets down to the Velorex company is far more interested in sales then safety. If you want a brake on the sidecar to work well with the bikes hydraulic disk brakes you are either going to need to change the wheel to a disk brake wheel or change sidecars. If you do change wheels to a disk brake wheel chances are that the brake rotor will be to large to balance well with the bike. This is why we make our own cast iron brake rotors for our sidecars which every one either comes standard with a disk brake or the disk brake is an option as many people either can not get past looking at price or buy into the notion that a brake on a sidecar is not needed. I would not be with out one on my own rigs.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
some times people say what they think. rather than what should be the standard.its like talking to some one a bought putting a sidecar on your bike. they say don't do it it is awful you wont like it it will be hard to ride it will kill you. don't put a car tire on your bike.if you will get the proper brake and get it adjusted properly you will love it at first and after you get used to having a brake you will want to know why you or any one else rode with out one before.just my 2 cents.
