newbe choice - Ural or BMW?

altho I am biased towards the beemer airheads, I would suggest yo pick up a good used '77 to 83 1000CC airhead.
they are virtually bulletproof, and will travel at 70 all day, plus hit the back roads whenever you want!
I just came back from a 2000 mile trip on my 33 yr old /5 [bought new, and NO breakdowns] with '77 R100RS engine..smooth all the way! including 75MPH on the 'states and many 35 MPH days on twisty secondarys in the ozarks area.
install a subframe on the bike, and put on a Ural, or other similar SC on it, and youre in for one hell of a great trip!!
My Bing carbs never needed adjusting, even when going up Mount Evans and Pikes peak[gravel] twice. over 14,000' elevation.

Bob,

I'm beginning to check out the airheads (www.airheads.org, etc). I thought the greater ground clearance of the GS might be useful & understood that the R100GS was one of the last airheads. Are there particular models in the '77 to '88 period you like? Did they still have the earles forks?

Also thanks for the Bing carb comment. My last carburetted bike experience was on Honda 350 at Wolf Creek pass, CO about 35 years ago. The struggle up the pass could simply have been the low power --- any actual memory is pretty much lost in the mists of time.

consider something like a KLR as well....

Originally written by wlandahl on 7/21/2006 1:50 PM

Bob,

I'm beginning to check out the airheads (www.airheads.org, etc). I thought the greater ground clearance of the GS might be useful & understood that the R100GS was one of the last airheads. Are there particular models in the '77 to '88 period you like? Did they still have the earles forks?

Also thanks for the Bing carb comment. My last carburetted bike experience was on Honda 350 at Wolf Creek pass, CO about 35 years ago. The struggle up the pass could simply have been the low power --- any actual memory is pretty much lost in the mists of time.

the earles forks do not come on the later airheads. I installed my own on the R75/5
I am not very familiar with the newer Beemers, but love the simplicity of the airheads...air cooled, no fuel pumps, no fuel injection, ABS stuff..nothing to really go wrong!
I added an aux 3.5 gal tank to my bike to extend the range to 270 miles, but my butt dont last that long..nice to have the extra gas along tho!
also, it is gravity fed...just open the valve and gas flows into reg tank or the carbs on the road. no fuel pumps or wiring switches to worry about. as far as clearance goes, you can raise it up to give adequate road clearance, but not as much as the GS. probably 8-10" of clearance.
The Earles forks makes for much easier steering , and are strong, but you can also install modded triple trees for easier steering, or get a Unit LL front end for more $$$.

I have a new Ural, also 2 BMWs, have had several. Also just added a sc to a V Strom.

1 You didn't mention how handy/mechanically inclined you are. Based on personal experience as well as talking with others, the Urals are far from trouble free. They are a lot of fun, look cool, etc. but not trouble free. I had a rear wheel bearing go on my new Retro, then the engine wouldn't run right due to rain soaking the paper air cleaner.(both on the trip home from Sealttle to Los ANgeles). I am not handy, either problem could have been more serious in Mexico. My problems are not unique, just the nature of the bike.

2. I also suspect the odds of purchasing a trouble free 100GS are less than great. A few riders have tremendous luck with them, but certainly not all. Again, sort of depends on how mechanical you are.

I opted for a new bike as a tug for my 2nd rig (I plan to do some long distance touring, however mostly in the US/Canada).

I'll take new and complicated over old and simple every day of the week, but that's just me (and I am NOT mechanically inclined).

Good luck, sounds lke fun

greg

BMW is a much more reliable tug choice over a Ural tug. Another consideration; remember that a sidecar increases your fuel consumption. FI systems are quite reliable on most bikes now days. With the better mileage and good reliability of FI systems, I'd look that way if you are looking for a newer model tug.

I have a Honda GL1100 tug, with carburetors, and the mileage really crashes when running at interstate speed on the super slab. I know riders with sidecars on FI bikes that have fuel mileage much better than me. My next rig will use a FI tug because of fuel mileage.

I do a lot of riding, and put on a lot of miles, so I'm not talking from a ride around town or ride around the state perspective. I just wanted to add my perspective to your thoughts and decision.

I have to second Greg's advice, and I too own a Ural ('06 Patrol). For the type of riding it sounds like you want to mostly be doing, long distances, different terrains, I would go with the BMW. My husband rides a '06 BMW 650 GS and LOVES it. Very reliable, no problems, with almost 12,000 miles in 8 months. Also, the reason he chose this bike was for it's dual sport cabability. Now, I am loving my little rig, for me it works out great. I have no need for speed, and it is very rugged. We ride dirt as much a possible, and the terrain as well as the climate here in the dust bowl can be extreme, and my rig just keeps on going! I have yet to come across any terrain it can't handle, even trails that are really Jolly Green Giant sized gravel (a.k.a small boulders), deep sand, and 112 degree heat. We also ride in altitudes ranging from the Phoenix dust bowl up to 6000+. Now, having sung my praises for my Ural, it is not built for speed. Riding from Oregon to Phoenix this last May was a scenic and leisurely experience. Any incline and the rig will drop down to 50-55mph, and that's just all you get. At this point, we are thinking that when either of us are ready for a new bike, that we will hack the GS. The main reason being the speed/power. We ride a lot in groups, and since I am the only hack, I sometimes worry that I slow down the group when we are on pavement (otherwise it's not an issue). As far as durability of the GS, if you have any reservations, I suggest you watch "Long Way Round" and you will be drooling and ready to go on your trip! They are riding 1150 BMW (might be 1100 or 1200, I forget) and they really perform in some amazing terrain!!
Looking forward to hearing about your decision!
-Karla

I bought a new 2002 URAL, the model with the single wheel drive. It was nothing but trouble. ;I did not have 200 miles of ;continious trouble free riding. It was delivered with pitted wheels. They replaced them. The rubber liners in the wheels was old and rotten. The flexable mount for the carbs cracked. Old rubber and poor rubber. The Alternator blew up.....several times. 'The electircal system was prone to problems. The ignition modul blew out, a few times. The drive shaft splines sheared off. We ;did finally ;find that the wrong timing gears were installed. That is why it made BAD BAD BAD noises. Th at is perhaps why so much trouble was with the ignition system, alternator etc.

Most of the stuff was repaired by my dealer and covered by the compay.

It is not comfortable at all, the brakes are at best poor.

Cute, attractive to kids, dogs and chicks....wife woujld not let me go for a ;ride with an extra ;helmet....

I understand that the now importer has fixed many of the problems. I just don't think it ;is the bike for y ou.

I now have a ;Kawasaki 1500 Drifter era 1999. Had Hannigsn install their classic side car. Can't say enough ablut the quality of the product ord the people who work and run Hannigan. Good ride, lots of power. Have had folks for a ;ride who are excess of 300 lbs. Whole out fit is a little big for what you are speaking of but the same car on most any of the bikes mentioned would be a ;wonderful adventure hack.

I have the device on my side car that will raise or lower the car to tilt the bike to tune for load, wind road etc. Works great , don"t leave home with out it. Myh foot brake works on the side car disk. Stopps well. Some problem with head ;shake but Hannigan is working with me to dampen that.

35 mpg, can hold high speeds all day. Longest ride, yesterday to BMW rally and back. Total 400 miles. Ya I was tired..at 75, the age not the speed I guess I should be tired.

ride on

Vernon C Mauk

You might want to check out the Adventure Riders website, also. Several people there use sidecar rigs, reviews and stuff.

One thing to consider about the Beemer that I never see mentioned; join the BMWMOA and you get The Annonymous Book. People are listed literally all over the world, including Mexico, who are willing to help a traveller. These people are in the darndest places. The only draw back I've experienced so far is that they stay up too late so they can hear every detail of your trip, and they try to feed you too much. This web of people is astounding. Nothing else like it, and worth the price of a BMW right there, if you travel a lot.

Thanks for the responses! Just the sort of stuff I need to mull over. A bit of background & some reply to your inputs -

* I currently have 2 BMWs:
An R1100RT is my long distance touring bike and I love its handling and comfort. The ABS has saved my butt at least once & the FI has never failed to run smoothly so I do appreciate modern machinery; in fact, for this type of travel, my only desired upgrade would be to an R1200RT.
An F650GS serves for my commute bike & as an intro to dirt-road riding. It has been my experience on the latter that causes me to think a hack would be a good idea --- I'm not especially well coordinated & at age 60 my body isn't dealing well with the "bruises earned" part of gaining off-road experience; 3 points of contact seems a *good* idea!

* For whatever reason, I have an emotional fondness for BMWs & boxer engines. This has lead me to pass over the virtues of other bikes such as KLR or VStrom to some extent. I think I'd want more power than in the KLR 650; the VStrom 1000 would be a candidate depending upon how I come down regarding FI when off the beaten path.

* Mechanical capability --- has been extreamely limited for the last couple of decades. However I am trainable and was once a reasonably competent helicopter mechanic. To do what I'd like to (other than as part of a tour group), I see that I need to plan & implement a set of steps to acquire the skills necessary for routine maintainence and basic mechanical/electrical trouble-shooting.

* I'm still in information gathering mode; lurking here and some of the Ural forums in addition to BMW groups (MOA, IBMWR, ...) where I'm a bit more active. I read the Adventure Riders & Horrizons Unlimited websites for general touring insights & traveler stories as well as books such as "Jupiter's Travels", "One Man Caraven", and "Long Way Round" (also the DVD, I'm halfway thru & Karla you're right about the drooling).

----

At this point, my best course of action seems to be:
* get out & see some rigs "in the wild" -- the GA Sidecar Club campouts would seem to be good for this & are pretty accessible for me
* think again real hard about what I want to accomplish; the focus on "adventure travel" is causing me to disregard many fine rides perfectly suited for US touring & giving my grandkids rides.
* re-think the timeframe; even if my focus is right (for me), an approach such as buying an older BMW rig would meet my secondary aims and provide the opportunity to develope my mechanical (& riding) skills. Then, with 2-3 years experience, I could get another bike for the Contential Divide & Mexican trips.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
See you around the campfire one of these days.

Newbee....

Stay away from the Ural. Wonderful concept, poor excution. I have a good friend with an R800 and velorex for sale. Good price to the right buyer. Simple rig to keep running and running and running. The advice on the airheads is absolutly correct. Look up hack1200 on this site and contact him or me. We both ride C's, him with a Ural tub and me with an Champion tub. Even the ural tub isn't the same as todays modern tubs. Hannigan is also a very good place to shop for a rig. Stay away from Dauntless.

Uber

some things to consider:
a KLR has comparable power to a Ural. Performance with a sidecar attached seems about the same as a Ural-plenty to get the job done on roads and surfaces that keep your speeds below 50mph. Adequate unloaded to about 65, can be flogged faster. Add a load or head wind or hill and it will struggle to 65, maybe. Not a good choice for an interstate trip, but can bite off huge miles at lower speeds and works the back country very well.A new KLR with sidecar can be put together for about the same price as a new Ural and you get more for your money in my opinion.

Advantage over the Ural-much more common, parts are readily available
more reliable
many aftermarket parts.

Advantage over a BMW
simplicity
it is cheap-doesn't cost much to get, doesn't cost much to fix, doesn't hurt so bad if it is stolen or totaled, is a less appealing target for theft than the luxury GS you parked next to.
it looks cheap-this might be important when you are taking this to a third world country.
It is realtively light so hard roads will be less stress on the bike, it will be less likey to get stuck and less stress on you to get unstuck.
Liquid cooling-some think this is a disadvantage but I think it is a big plus for hauling a sidecar in hot weather. The radiator and fan can be protected and the sidecar makes tearing it up in a biff less likely anyway.

You could fly up and take one of my classes-we use KLR rigs in class and you could see if you like sidecars and if the KLR seems adequate. If it seems low on power, you won't like the Ural either. If the power seems OK and you are in love with the Ural(they ARE fetching little beasts :-), then you might want to go that route. If not, you probably do want one of the big dualies-an airhead or newer BMW if that is your love, or a Strom, Tiger or KTM. I wish we could get an Afrika Twin here- that would certainly be on my list.
http://adventuresidecar.com/training06/training06.htm
http://adventuresidecar.com/articles.htm

If you will be riding much at all on faster roads to get ehre you are going or if you are going to be doing much running in moutainous areas where steep grades are prevalent you will be happier with the power of a GS over the other candidates. An airhead is fine although an oilhead will provide more power. Both of these bikes will make for a decent rig in all conditions though. Many feel they need a GS due to ground clearance when they may not but that is simply a personal decision.
The high sitting rigs based on dual sport or even GS bikes are neat but handling does suffer on the hard roads. If you have read some of the posts here and at AV Rider by Beemechef and Twin Twin you may be aware of how much difference the addition of a swaybar to these machines can make. It is drastic to put it mildly.
Airhead or oilhead? Either wil do well and it seems that you are aware of the differences.
Sidecar? A Ural is not a bad choice and will serve you well. There are other more hardcore options around for real world touring though. Function is far more impotant than form in many cases.

Take a BMW from the /7 series,I think the best BMW,s ever made.
Very reliable and easy to repair/maintain.
I had an 80/7 which made about 300.000 kilometers in sun and snow and this bike is still riding.(my biggest mistake ever made?,I sold it!!)

Greetings, Ingmar