New To Sidecars

If no sidecar training classes in your area, Buy the Yellow book (Whitehorse Press, Evergreen Safety Council or?)or else download Hal Kendall's Driving a Sidecar Book from this site and read up and find an empty parking lot and practice, practice, practice. You can't beat muscle memory and you have some things to unlearn after 30 odd years of solo riding in order to be a proficient sidehacker.

Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar

Thanks Lonnie,
Yea, got the yellow book, read it cover to cover twice and also all of the manuals on the USCA site. One of the exercises I read somewhere was to stand on the side of the bike, put your foot on the left footboard and try to tilt the rig to get a feeling of what the COG might be like. Now maybe I can picture doing this with a lightweight bike and chair but there is no way I can imagine being able to heft an Ultra/TLE combo onto two wheels, and even if I could it just sounds kind of nuts to try. I've also read that you should start a slow RH circle in a parking lot and tighten it up until the chair starts to fly to get a feel for it. Again, is this really a good idea with a heavyweight like mine? Just how stable is this particular rig? Do you really need ballast the first few times you ride it until you get used to it? Is it really that bad of an idea to ride 2-up with no passenger in the sidecar, or is that more of an issue with lighter rigs? I guess thats the kind of stuff I'm talking about. It's like reading a book about driving a car and then trying to apply it to both a minivan and a Corvette.
Unfortunately, no classes in the area. I bought my outfit from the largest H-D dealer in the area, and even he has only sold 1 other rig in the last year. I guess it's kinda cool to be the first (and only) hack in my town, but you do get the feeling that you're hangin' out there all by your lonesome.
Joe

Good questions Joe. And, I may add, they are common questions that all of us had at one tim eor another. The rig you have is what we may call a stable rig but it is still suceptable to lifting the sidecar wheel. Read Hal's books and prctice in a clear parking lot. Taking a course is not a bad aidea at all. Reading and taking a course are steps in the right direction and will give you some info that will help you through the learning curve. Maybe I should say 'will help you 'IN' th elearning cureve as th enature of this sport is that we are all still learning to a point.
I see you are in Ohio. There will be a sidecar training session at the upcoming ISOK Sidecar RON DEE VOO to be held in Central Pa. in August. The situation is this:
Rally fee for August 5-7 is 30 bucks. It includes three meals, camping , sidecar games etc etc.. Pre-registration fee is still 30 bucks buit gives you a free rally day and another meal which is on aug 4th. The training will be on August 4th and the cost is an additional 10 bucks that is to cover expenses for doing the session , liturature, a CD ETC..Deadline to register for th etraining and to pre register for th erally is june 30th.
So, if you wish to attend the rally and the training it is 40 bucks total.I will be posting info here and at SCT and other sites as the rally gets a little closer. There was also a nice write up in the recent Hack'd Magazine of RON DEE VOO '04.
Feel free to email me with any questions at cstanley@sunlink.net.
Pre registration etc can be mailed to:
claude stanley
rd1 box172s
middleburg, pa 17842

Hey Claude- where else have I seen you; sohc4? SCT?
Anyway, Joe, If you are not trailering this rig home, you will be lucky if no one (or no trees/parked cars/building corners/fire plugs/fill in the blank)gets hurt. Yes, I know this from experience. The things that have been written are there for a reason.
Especially at first- 1)BE AFRAID. I've had a tank rig and here's my advice; NEVER take a passenger on the rear fender. Take your Oldsmobile instead. Yes, you MUST try to fly the chair. You MUST get to know this rig and what will happen when encountering certain kinds of turns at different cambers going up and/or down at various speeds. No rig is so stable that it can't fly the car when you don't want to or bash the front of the sidecar with your ass in the air and your eyes bigger than your gaping mouth with a frozen "AW S**T!" in your throat.
Next, 2)Be humble. You are about to learn something unlike anything you have ever done. You will NOT be riding a motorcycle. When you get pretty good at it, you'll realise that you are part of a small group who know black magic and how to cast spells. Almost like being able to ride away from a stop sign on a hill while turning left riding a tank shift bike. 🙂
3) Remember how to get to Carnegie Hall!

Hello Uncle Ernie. Where have you seen me? Could be here , of course, or surely at SCT...or some rambling in Hack'd or the Sidecarist.Who knows...LOL.
You wrote: >> You will NOT be riding a motorcycle.<<
This is so very basic but we have found it to be one of the biggest hurdles for an experienced rider to overcome. A sidecar rig is a sidecar rig and no longer a motorcycle. It may look like a motorcycle but it ain't one. Seems like experienced solo riders take a little more time to get the hang of a hack than fairly new riders. 'Unlearning' what has become familiar to them can take some concious effort to do.
I totally agree that not going onto the road before taking the time to practice and get accustomed to an outfit is important. Making simple mistakes in a big parking lot can be humerous. Making thos same mistakes on the road can kill you.
Respect the machine and do not get overconfident too soo.
Also be warned that sidecars are a ton of fun and are very addictive. Once bitten by the sidecar bug it is terminal....but...not a bad thing. Welcome to the madness.
Claude USCA #3563
USCA National Chaplain
Founder Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

Hi! And welcome to the world of sidecars. You have come to the right place to ask questions. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here, please bear in mind however that I probably have the least of both of these qualities. Having said that.....I have an Electra myself that I bought new a couple of years ago. Last year I decided to take a sidecar course through the local community college here in Virginia. As soon as I threw my leg across the saddle of that training rig and began the exercises, I knew that I would not be complete until I had a sidecar on my electra-glide. I definitely reccommend some hands on training. Most of the people in my training class here in Virginia were from out of state. Lonnie hit the nail on the head when he said that "you can't beat muscle memory". Whatever you do, get some parking lot time in and then short trips up the road until you get comfotable. I purchased a 1992 Harley TLE sidecar up near D.C. This HD rig seems to be more stable than the rig I trained with, however if you don't stay on top of things the chair can and will come up. I used some bagged sand as ballast when I first took the rig out on the road. As I became more comfortable with it I would remove a bag. After about a month, I rode with no ballast in the chair and that is how I usually travel now. As far a pulling the chair up by standing on the left floorbaord, this takes a great deal of effort on my rig. I had better results by going in right hand circles in an open parking lot...and there are plenty of RH curves here in SW Virginia...lol. As far as riding two up with an empty chair. Well, my wife claims that the chair is more than a little warm in traffic on a summers day. What I have found works pretty good is to add about one half of mine and my wife's combined weight as ballast in the sidecar. The rig does not handle the best under these circumstances but we have taken some enjoyable rides that way. I have the only sidecar rig that I am aware of around these parts and I feel like I am the lone ranger and my chair is tonto. If I saw a rig with Virginia tags, I think that I would follow them home..lol. This is truly addictive.
I love my electra and my TLE. I am a little disappointed with the fact that there seems to be little info out there about this wonderful rig. I don't think that Harley does enough to promote this product. I hope that I have helped you with some of your questions. If I haven't or if you have any more of them... feel free to email me or post here...You are among friends here and I personally never tire of talking about Harley TLE's! Welcome again!

Hey fletch,
Where'd ya take that class? I talked to Cundiff Simmons at the Rally In The Valley in Salem once about taking his class, but never have been able to work out the scheduling to take it. I want to take the class when they provide the rigs, but the last time that I knew that it was being offered you had to provide your own rig. If I tear one up, I want it to belong to someone else!!!!
Connie

Hi Joe and All,

I'm new to this forum but have 20+ years of riding my 1985 Electra Glide that I bought new with a matching H-D sidecar. Love my rig and now so does my 5 year old grandson! He says, "Everyplace we go is more fun in the sidecar!" and I have to agree. Over the years our family has been from Key West to Canada and lots of places in between.

But the reason I'm jumping in here is to reinforce what has been said so well by others in this thread. Practice is #1 priority to ensure safe operation on the street cause its a "jungle out there" as we all know. Joe, your new H-D rig appears much more heavy and stable than it is once its moving! With hardly any effort or speed a tight right hand turn will bring the sidecar wheel off the ground and you must be prepared for that. It is really predictable after you know your rig real well, and you'll only know your rig well by knowing how to MAKE the rig do it!

The passenger rule-of-thumb that I follow is "One passenger always goes in the sidecar. If taking two passengers, then heaviest passenger always in the sidecar." It is really a center of gravity issue and getting the weight as low on the rig and toward the sidecar as possible. Really helps to load up the sidecar trunk with your travel gear too rather than stuffing the Tour Pak full.

Hope some of this helps. Best of luck with your rig!

Bob

Bob wrote:
>>The passenger rule-of-thumb that I follow is "One passenger always goes in the sidecar. If taking two passengers, then heaviest passenger always in the sidecar." It is really a center of gravity issue and getting the weight as low on the rig and toward the sidecar as possible. Really helps to load up the sidecar trunk with your travel gear too rather than stuffing the Tour Pak full.<<

Very good advice BoB. If I may add a little to it ...it is always best to put the weight as far to the rear of the sidecar as possible. Loading the nose can make for some bad handling on turns away from the hack.
Hey, I SEE YOU ARE IN PA. HOPE YOU CAN MAKE IT TO THE RON DEE VOO in August.. !!

Hey Connie,
I took the class in Wytheville, VA (Wytheville Community College), They provided the sidecar rig. I really reccomend it. It was like a mini sidecar rally because everyone there was interested in the same thing...sidecars. I could not find the web page for the course. I just called the college and they put me in contact with the instructor. Hope this helps!

Here are some contacts for the S/TEP courses in Va. Be sure that they are teaching the latest cirriculium.
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July 8-10, 2005
September 16-18, 2005
NVCC - Loudoun
contact Claire Wynn at 703-450-2551

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Wytheville CC contact Donald Early at 276-223-4746
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October 7-9, 2005 Danville CC contact phone 434-797-2222 ext. 8520 or 800-560-4291
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May 20-22, 2005
Sept. 23-25, 2005
Tidewater CC - Portsmouth contact Keith Lindgren at 757-822-5247 or 888-826-7584
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Thanks fletch & Claude for that info! Unfortunately, all of those locations are good distance from me. I live about an hours drive north of Roanoke, VA and taking a class at any of those locations would involve taking a pretty long trip. I really don't understand why there aren't any classes closer, all of those locations are sort of on the fringes of VA and I live pretty much in the middle. Roanoke is a pretty big city and there are lots of motorcycle riders in this area. I guess the best thing for me is to contact Cundiff Simmons. I have taken the beginning riders course at a local community college, but have never heard of them offering a sidecar class. Maybe, I need to build a fire under somebody.
Connie

I really want to thank everyone for all the helpful info. Unfortunately the only way I've got to get the rig home is by driving it, but luckily I can take all back roads and avoid the highway. The one theme common to just about everything I've read, both here and in the books, is that, appearences aside, this really will be a totally different vehicle than I have ever ridden before. I get the message. In general, when I'm riding I leave the attitude at home, and just assume that every other vehicle on the road is out to get me. This isn't paranoia, it's just survival, and it really doesn't make the trip any less pleasent, just safer. As a pilot and flight instructor for hot air balloons I'm kind of sensitive about the safety thing because when you're in the air you don't have the option of pulling off the side of the road to get your head together when things go totally FUBAR.
The other common thread I get is that the risk of something bad happening in the beginning is directly proportional to the speed of the rig, so slower is better is going to be my strategy for getting home (and to the practice lot) with bike and body intact. I know this can be done because you guys sound like you're having way too much fun for it to be all drudgery.
If I can get some time off, I'm definately going to try to make it to the rally but unfortunately the lack of free time is what attracted me to sidecars to begin with. This way I get to enjoy riding without having to sacrifice time with my family. My daughter (7 y/o) loves bikes but it will be a few years before I let her ride 2-up.
Thanks again,

Joe

Just remember that you are NOT on a motorcycle any longer. You have to turn right to go right and left to go left. Some have ssaid that the rig would not turn when first on a sidecar. This is the result of the subconcious wanting to counter steer like on a motorcycle and the brain wanting to steer like a car. Forget the motORcycle. One thing that helps but is rarely mentioned is to lessen the grip on one handle bar. No, don't take your hand off but just conciously steer with th epressure from one hand. This actually 'fakes out' the tendency to counter steer like on a solo machine and can help you to learn you are on a sidecar sooner.
Practice as much as you can before heading out and be careful.