Vernon, I have responded to your post with my comments below in the >>> <<>speaking for hal is not what i am doing here but I do know Hal quite well and this is not the case. He does, as some others do, have a few issues with what the so called yellow book advocates in a couple of areas and he has stated many times that other than that the book is a good book<>I spent a lot of time with Hal's books too Vernon..sound liek we both did.. I don't think the basics have changed that much <>Read on below. <<>A little contradiction here? Okay they stand up ..except for being hard on spokes etc etc ??? Just picking at this pont :-)<>Vernon...flying the chair is not one and the same as hard cornering with the chair in the air!! This is the contentious part between Hal and Hough.You know the issue by now I hope. If the sidecar wheel comes off the ground the so called 'steering reversion' does not take place right away as many have been led to believe though the book. If the sidecar wheel comes up and one thinks steering reversion took place at that point and decideds to countersteer he or she will turn left pretty quickly...this is the contentious part. Anyone want to prove this? Simple to do. Go in a circle to the right until the sidecar wheel comes up..when it comes up countersteer or turn left and the rig will go left and not right. So much for steering reversion!! Again...flying as when riding a rig similar to a lopsided solo bike and cornering with the wheel in the air are NOT one and the same.
In the paragraph above you speak about how important learning to fly the chair is ("a good skill to master") then you say it has no practical application on the street!! Teach hard cornering...teach how it feels when the sidecar wheel comes up...teach what to do...how to avoid it even but why teach someone how to ride around with the chair in the air if by your own admission it has no practical application on the street,should be reserved for controlled conditions etc.
Claude, let me apologize is I misstated Hal's position. My position is somewhere between what I have seen posted by Hal and that of Mr.Hough, if I understand them correctly(which I may not). I was quoting Hal(out of context) about him referring to flying the sidecar as a foolhardy stunt. I was thinking about his remarks about the "Yellow Book" and his discussions of steering reversion and his recent discussions of shifting body weight when I suggested he felt it was filled with dangerous misinformation. I think he is mistaken on these points but I do think they are worthy of discussion. I prefer that discussion to take place in class for beginners and face to face for us old farts. I regret I have not had the opportunity to do so with Hal or you. Doesn't look like I will be able to travel to your side of the mountains any time soon.Rather than hijack Dave's thread I posted a reply to your points in a new thread "Claude!Control Issues revisited"
Let me be clear regarding Hal's books/CDs-I think they are a valuable resource, but not the last word.
I feel the same way about David's book, which owes much to Hal's previous work.
Evergreen Safety Council's manual is based on David Hough's book, with some revisions. It is pretty basic, but good, useful information, too.
Read everything you can put your hands on, think about it, practice, think some more and practice some more.
Claude,
Well presented post. Bravo!
The broad spectrum of sidecaring is best represented here to the new hackers when the information is presented on the side of caution.
Flying is desireable by some, 200# ballast is preferred by others.
Like a 4 wheel drift is a valuable tool for a dirt tracker and stoppies and big air wow the troops at supercross, fun flying the chair is usually accomplished to impress the stands. This isn't newbie work.
I feel it is important to know the balance point of one's rig so you know what the limits are IF the wheel lifts. The problem is that there is a time lag between that time and the time when the balance point has been achieved so that one can accomplish the countersteering reversion, proceeding on two wheels.
The fallacy being: This could be the time it takes to get in front of, and under that Semi in the other lane (on the road), or over the cliff and into the rocks (off the road).
Moral: Safety and survival are the important issues for the mature, leave the extreme stuff for the Pros and the Puppies.
Lonnie
Well I don’t feel Hi-Jacked 🙂 This is exactly what I am looking for. If there is one thing I have learned about biking is that not everyone is going to have the same opinion on everything.
My intention of flying the car is to see what it is going to take to make that happen, not as much to make it happen as to be ready for it when it does. After reading the yellow book my wife was very worried about tipping. I am glad she is concerned but reading the book you can get the impression that it is very easy to tip. After practicing in the parking lot I found that is just not the case. Sure it is possible but it took a hard try just to get it that 2 inches off the ground (heh is that really even flying? 😉 For me it is like testing your brakes in the snow and ice. Sure you don’t want to do that in a on road experience, but learning the inertia that is going to put you over the threshold of a controlled stop and skidding is a nice underlying feeling to have.
With that said, I am no longer playing with this toy. It is the S.O.'s and she has no intentions of “Flying the Car” (other then at the class). See is a very conservative rider and I am glad for this. She took a Bad spill on a three wheeler when she was first learning to ride and didn’t realize that a 3 wheeler just can’t corner like a two wheeler. I would much rather she learned this in a controlled environment like a safety class then on the road. Plus if it is hard on the frame, spokes or whatever, even better to use the classes bike eh? 😉
Thanks again guys for all the advice.
As a former Ural owner, just remember that the engines on Urals are low rev. engines...... not for going at a continous 55 or 60mph, other wise YOU WILL HAVE ENGINE PROBLEMS.... trust me.
