Okay so I picked up my freshly mounted sidecar sat afternoon (and I guess I should add that I'm a newby to sidecars but not motorcycles) and after a few stops showin' my new outfit off and casually drivin' down a country road late in the evenin' with the wife on the back and our 4yr old granddaughter in the car suddenly out of nowhere the bake starts heading towards a tree off the left hand side of road. I don't know what caused the freak pull to the left after coming back down to earth( both the wife and I thrown off of bike and the granddaughter taking the ride of her life in the car making sure she was alright amd the wife and I feeling for broken bones a big sigh of relief and home we went.
Anyone out there have any rhymes or reasons why this happen and what kinds of things do I have to do in the future to prevent this from happening again as this car was bought to assure more summer riding for the 3 of us and I dang sure don't want my granddaughter to have to experience this again or the wife and I as far as that goes...
Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated Thanks for taking the time to read this post...=)
Welcome aboard, sorry to hear about your problem but glad everyone's ok.
I'm a newbie too (been riding 3 wheels for about 6 months) so I'm not going to be much help, but maybe I can ask some questions so the experts can figure it out.
What kind of bike and sidecar? And were you braking when it happened?
Have you taken a look at Hal's manuals? They are free, they are here ( http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp), and they are an excellent source of info on sidecars.
You might want to ask the experts here about the sidecar "loading". From what I've read you want your heaviest passenger in the car. I understand this defeats the purpose of having the sidecar for the granddaughter. But the more weight on the bike places the center of gravity towards the bike and makes the sidecar less stable (unless you have a lot of ballast or it's a heavy car).
I haven't had many passengers and I've never had them on the bike and car at the same time. So I'll be watching for answers also.
These things have a totally different handling character from bikes and cars. Take it slow till you figure out the problem.
Rob
Rob
Or you sure you didn't hit something with your hack wheel. If you did it will turn your bike to the left. When the hack wheel up it's going left if you don't have a good hand on the bar's. That's how it happiens with me any way. But now I'm just coming back to sidecar's after a long absent's.Rudy
Badly off balance. The sidecar wheel was off the ground. Put your wife in the sidecar with your granddaughter and drive the same route.
When on three wheels, turning the handlebar right makes the rig go right. When on two wheels, turning the handlebar right makes you go left.
The sidecar, going down the road, needs to be AT LEAST 1/3 as heavy as the bike. I would go even heavier until you get 10 or 15,000 miles under your belt.
I'm guessing that you, your wife, and the bike combined weigh a bunch more than that formula allows. If your wife doesn't want to ride in the sidecar, add enough weight to the car to bring it down and keep it down.
Mike
I'd definetly say you had too much weight on the bike. Lucky no one got hurt. If you draw a line between the tires, you want the majority of the weight inside the triangle. A rider alone and an empty sidecar has half his weight outside the line. Next time try it with wife in sidecar, of a couple of sandbags.
Try some of the practice excersizes in a parking lot, of look for a STEP class. (google evergreen safety foundation, they'll have links you may find something in your area.) I went to one years ago in Virginia, took the weekend off, was a worthwhile learning experience, just like an MSF course.
Your installer should have given you some basic sidecar information.
The heaviest passenger should be in the sidecar. Two adults on the bike and a 4 year old in the sidecar is downright dangerous (as you have found out) unless the sidecar has been heavily ballasted,
If you choose to use removable ballast, place it low and to the rear of the sidecar to keep it from dipping it's nose into the road in case of a hard stop or hard braking during a left turn.
As others have said: Download the sidecar operators manual here and put in some range time practicing the exercises listed there. You'll soon be flying that chair on purpose.
A sidecar rig is a whole nother animal than a solo bike so read, practice and learn. Fun times are ahead.
You were lucky in your first newbie experience. Some haven't fared so well after years on a solo bike and expecting the same handling with a sidehack rig. A little Tide will take care of the extra laundry. lol
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Welcome to the sidecar world, glad to here you came through the experience able to look back at it and ask what happened? I'm in the same court as everyone else on the concept of weight in the car. Our usage is exactly as you described with a grandson in the car and the purpose of the car when we purchased it. When the wife is in the car with the grandson (40 lbs) handling was good. If I rode solo I added an 80 lb sandbag behind the seat, the grandson could ride and everything was good. If two grandsons (90 lbs) ride and the wife was on the back I would add another 80 lb sandbag behind the seat that ballast always seemed to work out. The best way I found to prove out the correct ballast is to head for the big open school parking lot and put it through the turns with and without, add the wife to the bike and do the same then add the ballast you will be absolutely amazed how quickly the car comes up when you add a passenger to the bike without added ballast in the car. Good luck and have fun with the new car
IN the old day's when I raced sidecar's we all had to have a working dead man. Rider's could get throad off then the bike could right itself and off it went. It was hard on car's, people seamed to get out of the way. I don't know how to kill these new bikes, we just ground out the coil on the old bikes.Rudy
Glad everyone is alright. A course is a great idea if one is available, otherwise the training manual and an empty parking lot will suffice.
As you have found already...sidecars are not like 2 wheel bikes.
Other things to watch out for. Sharp right hand corners at speed...will lift the chair off the ground.
Left hand corners too fast or going down hill...applying brake, especially front brake can lift the rear of the bike off the ground. Moving your butt and body weight to counteract the inertial forces helps in both of these situations, but obeying posted speed limits is also important.
To all Thanks for the replies, and a sure thing is obvious ride with equal
weight in car to counter balance load of the wife and I riding on bike with granddaughter in car. Again Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions...=)
Put 2 coins o a table one flat, one staying on the rim. Hit the table, which one tips?
Its a complete new thing to ride a rig than a bike.
Myself I went in three bends straight into the pasture on my first day on 140km many years back. Next day I whacked away a road side plock.
That tought me to use first the brain and breaks, learn something more theory and then start to pull the throttle.
2 weeks later I went to Norway and learned how to ride 500km daily a 21 horse open sleigh.
(one morning -28 degree Celsius / 3rd kick and rang tang tang / into a ditch because spikes have their limit too)
1986 what a Chrismas and new year!
Sven
Hey there Lonnie...when you say to heavily ballast the sidecar that's a 1/3 of the total weight of riders on bike correct...? If so someone do the math for me a 1/3 of 510lbs. would be...?
I solved the weight distribution problem on my HD rig by installing a solo saddle.
If two are on the bike with a total of 510#, add the weight of the bike and the sidecar load should be about 1/2 of that total weight.
One of these folks should be in the sidecar for stability in right handers.
Too much weight above the center of gravity will capsize the boat!
FYI: 1/3 of 510# is 170#.
Lonnie
You still haven't told us what bike and sidecar. From your profile I see you ride an Ultra. Is this the bike you put a sidecar on? Is it a Harley sidecar? Or is it another brand?
If it's a Harley, I'm guessing the 510 pounds you mention is your weight combined with your wife. That 1/3 figure is based on the weight of the bike AND it's pssengers divided by the weight of the sidecar and it's passengers.
The empty bike runs about 850 pounds. Add the 510 you mention and you end up with 1360 on one side of the equation. One third of that is 454 pounds. If I remember right, the Harley sidecar is about 250 pounds. That means your passenger, cargo, and ballast should come to at least 254 pounds. I emphasize AT LEAST because I personally feel a new rider should carry more than that until you get ten or fifteen thousand miles of sidecaring under your belt.
This all assumes you are running a factory Harley sidecar on a bone stock Harley Ultra. Others may feel free to correct me if my estimated weights are wrong.
