horrorguy - 3/15/2013 6:24 PM
i see Buell was taking orders for 100 bikes .i also see no dealerships listed .hopefully Buell will continue .
I think it has been less then 2 years may be 3 and they did a hell of a job on design! They have a race team and doing well considering how long they have been doing it. Geoff May says it handles better then anything he has race and he has raced a lot. All are seeing it handling and doing things the other sports bikes cannot.
Every one is hand build they do all there own work. Eric Buell is working on some cheaper models. Baby steps.
horrorguy - 3/15/2013 6:45 PM
i do want to see new Indian when they put out the new motor .hopefully Polaris will be able to get the cost down a little . plus they need to bring back the Indian sidecar [maybe liberty can do that ]
I have been talking to Indian on Facebook and was told the prices on the new bikes will be coming down from what they are now. How much only time will tell.
Erik Buell racing
Plenty more on Youtube.
Funny, back in the time I was a poor student riding all year round my CB650 and MZ rig both brands HD and Ducati sucked electrically. All guys I knew who had one of those were tinkering all day long spending more money then riding. My dream was take a HD-block, mount a Desmodromic valve train on top and fit it into a race frame as naked as possible.
Just thinking about it my mouth filled with water... Then when I came to Costa Rica with these fabulous serpentines several tracks made me close my eyes and imagine how it would be to ride such a superlative bike.
Most of all because I was between 1994 and 2004 condemned to 4 wheels or a Vespa.
And boommm about 8 years ago when I finally was able to get my Jawa rig I stepped into the local HD store and my mouth didn't want to shut. There it was standing what I dreamed of as student. Only the desmodromic valve train was missing. Out of the factory a 1200 ccm Buell.
I wish that man all luck to get back on his feet.
Riding with the Jawa I still dream in these roads I talk of. but since 15 month when I ride my KLR up there I notice very fast that 45hp is way more then you can use in these serpentines. Everything above becomes dangerous and when some Triumph, Beemer or Ninja comes by (most just hang on my back), if they want I just let them pass and hope not to have to lend last help again. Young suckers on real sport bikes are a story of their own.
2 types: brain amputated or show offs. The last ones often I can still shut up and the first ones cause me to pray...
Sven
The guys that you know that rode Harley s way back when must not have know how to work on them as I have owned Harley s from 1942 and up. I have very little problems with all mine.
46u - 3/15/2013 10:21 PM The guys that you know that rode Harley s way back when must not have know how to work on them as I have owned Harley s from 1942 and up. I have very little problems with all mine.
I had a 73xlch sportster and it was by far the worst bike I ever owned, in fact it was so bad I ended up riding Hondas fo the next 20 years because I didn't trust the brand. Then I started riding with a buddy of mine who bought a new evo sportster and he rode the daylights out of that bike and it never failed him. I was so impressed with that bike that I ended up buying a 2000 1200 custom for my sidecar. I think the evolution engine is the best thing that ever happened to HD. I think thier bikes are better now than they ever were.
I've had Harleys, Triumphs (Meridan and Hinckley versions), Hondas, Kawasaki, Ural and Dnepr. The Harleys were by far the most reliable. My '07 will cross the 90k mark this year and, other than a failed starter replaced under warranty at the 30k mark, has yet to give me any trouble.
Anyways. I've been looking at the Indian website for a few days now and am starting to feel that maybe they CAN pull it off and resurrect the name. I hope they will also expand the lineup to include a touring model, too, something NOT designed by Ness. The swoopy alien spaceship lines of the late model Victory bikes really turns me off and I hope Indian doesn't follow their styling cues. No offense to any Victory owners on here, the bikes are good it's just the styling that leaves me cold.
i had a 2000 victory .it was a good bike .i wasnt too keen on the gearing around town but it was strong running bike out on the road .i had been looking for sidecars for it and the harley shovelhead i had . i had become too crippled at the time to really deal with that so i sold them and got the 1988 harley with a sidecar . hopefully Indian can have both a line for us people that love the traditional look of the early Indian and something touring and more modern [No Ness spaceships please ] for people looking for high tech riding . Indian lost the motorcycle wars before because they did not advance as fast as Harley but i dont think that will happen with Victory running the show.
newenglandjim - 3/16/2013 2:28 AM
46u - 3/15/2013 10:21 PM The guys that you know that rode Harley s way back when must not have know how to work on them as I have owned Harley s from 1942 and up. I have very little problems with all mine.
I had a 73xlch sportster and it was by far the worst bike I ever owned, in fact it was so bad I ended up riding Hondas fo the next 20 years because I didn't trust the brand. Then I started riding with a buddy of mine who bought a new evo sportster and he rode the daylights out of that bike and it never failed him. I was so impressed with that bike that I ended up buying a 2000 1200 custom for my sidecar. I think the evolution engine is the best thing that ever happened to HD. I think thier bikes are better now than they ever were.
How old was your XLCH when you got it and how many others had been messing with it before you got it? Yes the old iron head was not as good as the big bikes. I bought a NEW 1972 XLCH and it was a good bike. Never had a problem kick starting it. Matter of fact my 02 Ultra I bought new is the first Harley I have had with a electric starter. From working on Harley s and riding them for for 42 years none stop I have found a lot of Harley owners that just think they can work on them. I all so work on many a foreign bike and have see one that had more problems then they should. I have a 2006 Suzuki I am working on now.
I had a NEW 1970 Honda CB 175 and I spent more time working on it then riding it. Do I think all Honda s are junk no I just got a bad one.
I like all motorcycles and have many I ride with that most do no have Harley s and we have a lot of fun. The motorcycle does not make the man the man makes the motorcycle. I ride with any that ride not like many Harley riders that ride to the bar drink and talk about riding then rides home and there are plenty of them.LOL
Gummiente - 3/16/2013 7:01 AM
I've had Harleys, Triumphs (Meridan and Hinckley versions), Hondas, Kawasaki, Ural and Dnepr. The Harleys were by far the most reliable. My '07 will cross the 90k mark this year and, other than a failed starter replaced under warranty at the 30k mark, has yet to give me any trouble.
Anyways. I've been looking at the Indian website for a few days now and am starting to feel that maybe they CAN pull it off and resurrect the name. I hope they will also expand the lineup to include a touring model, too, something NOT designed by Ness. The swoopy alien spaceship lines of the late model Victory bikes really turns me off and I hope Indian doesn't follow their styling cues. No offense to any Victory owners on here, the bikes are good it's just the styling that leaves me cold.
Victory makes decent looking cruisers but I have to agree about the touring models just not my kind of bike in the looks department. It might have a lot to do with my age and being a old traditionalist. Yes from what I hear they are good bikes just not for me.
Keep your eyes open HD next motor is coming out in 2016 and it will be water cooled.
Like I was saying I have been talking to Indian on facebook and gave them my opinion and told them they need to make a sidecar for the new model. LOL
horrorguy - 3/16/2013 8:46 AM
i had a 2000 victory .it was a good bike .i wasnt too keen on the gearing around town but it was strong running bike out on the road .i had been looking for sidecars for it and the harley shovelhead i had . i had become too crippled at the time to really deal with that so i sold them and got the 1988 harley with a sidecar . hopefully Indian can have both a line for us people that love the traditional look of the early Indian and something touring and more modern [No Ness spaceships please ] for people looking for high tech riding . Indian lost the motorcycle wars before because they did not advance as fast as Harley but i dont think that will happen with Victory running the show.
What did Indian in is two things. During WWII they did not make any bikes for the none war efferent so when the war was over and the goverment canceled the contract put them in a big bind as may where up set about not being able to get them during the war years.
After the war all they made was the chief as far as a V twin and the biggest mistake was making the Arrow which was nothing but junk! Arrow was the British looking bike they made.
46u - 3/13/2013 7:29 PM
horrorguy - 3/13/2013 11:18 PM
nice looking motor . hopefully Indian will do well with Polaris .
I think they will do to having a good all ready established company not like all the others that have tried.
As poor as Harley s are made now and as poor as the dealers treat customers I hope they give them a run for their money. And that is coming from a person that has been riding and working on Harley s none stop for 42 years.
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Hate to contradict. My 2011 Harley-Davidson Dyna Street Bob is the best motorcycle I've ever owned out of 40+ in the past 50 years, 16 of which were Harley-Davidsons. It has the quietest Harley engine, best clutch, best transmission, best paint and best fit and finish of all of them.
It runs perfectly with pinpoint fuel injection and bullet proof ignition. It's quiet too, since I never change mufflers or modify engines. With 96 cubic inches, it's got plenty of power for me as well.
As to the specification for runout on the cranks, it's now .004 checked on a truing jig at the bearing races. They allow .010 on the end of the crank with the flywheel in the cases but even I think that's too much. Before it reaches that point, you would have severe vibration.
I looked at the Indian engine and it appears very nice. It will probably do well in Polaris terms but I'm not sure which demographic Polaris is aiming at. Most younger potential buyers won't know much about the original company and it will have to compete on its own terms. I'm hoping that they can keep the price down so as to make it a viable competitor for Harley-Davidson. We shall see.
I do find it a bit annoying that the Indian name keeps getting bought and sold. Perhaps Polaris will be able to keep it going but the last one, the Gilroy version cost lots of people their jobs and probably some retirenement value.
By my count, this is probably at least the sixth iteration of non-original Indians that wears the badge. I'm thinking of the Royal Enfields in the mid 1950's, the Floyd Cylmer Velocettes, then the first modern version that was a fraud with corresponding federal jail time. Then there was Gilroy with the Evo Clones and then the Bottlecap engine. then there was another group that claimed that they were working on a new bike but then sold out to now Polaris. Actually, I've lost count since I think there were one or two more who faded in the stretch.
There is also a four-cylinder version that is built in the UK that has a different owner. AFAIK, Polaris has the rights only in the USA since the Courts in all of the cases had no jurisdiction elsewhere.
Good luck to Polaris.
gnm109 - 3/16/2013 8:53 PM
46u - 3/13/2013 7:29 PM
horrorguy - 3/13/2013 11:18 PM
nice looking motor . hopefully Indian will do well with Polaris .
I think they will do to having a good all ready established company not like all the others that have tried.
As poor as Harley s are made now and as poor as the dealers treat customers I hope they give them a run for their money. And that is coming from a person that has been riding and working on Harley s none stop for 42 years.
=========================================================================
Hate to contradict. My 2011 Harley-Davidson Dyna Street Bob is the best motorcycle I've ever owned out of 40+ in the past 50 years, 16 of which were Harley-Davidsons. It has the quietest Harley engine, best clutch, best transmission, best paint and best fit and finish of all of them.It runs perfectly with pinpoint fuel injection and bullet proof ignition. It's quiet too, since I never change mufflers or modify engines. With 96 cubic inches, it's got plenty of power for me as well.
As to the specification for runout on the cranks, it's now .004 checked on a truing jig at the bearing races. They allow .010 on the end of the crank with the flywheel in the cases but even I think that's too much. Before it reaches that point, you would have severe vibration.
I looked at the Indian engine and it appears very nice. It will probably do well in Polaris terms but I'm not sure which demographic Polaris is aiming at. Most younger potential buyers won't know much about the original company and it will have to compete on its own terms. I'm hoping that they can keep the price down so as to make it a viable competitor for Harley-Davidson. We shall see.
I do find it a bit annoying that the Indian name keeps getting bought and sold. Perhaps Polaris will be able to keep it going but the last one, the Gilroy version cost lots of people their jobs and probably some retirenement value.
By my count, this is probably at least the sixth iteration of non-original Indians that wears the badge. I'm thinking of the Royal Enfields in the mid 1950's, the Floyd Cylmer Velocettes, then the first modern version that was a fraud with corresponding federal jail time. Then there was Gilroy with the Evo Clones and then the Bottlecap engine. then there was another group that claimed that they were working on a new bike but then sold out to now Polaris. Actually, I've lost count since I think there were one or two more who faded in the stretch.
There is also a four-cylinder version that is built in the UK that has a different owner. AFAIK, Polaris has the rights only in the USA since the Courts in all of the cases had no jurisdiction elsewhere.
Good luck to Polaris.
My officially HD manual says service wear limit is .003 on the bearing journals next to the fly wheel. If you have .010 on the end of the pinion shaft I assure you it will eat up the pinion bushing which is how the rods get oil and mess up the oil pump. See it too many times. does not even take that much to mess them up. Unless you have a 02 or earlier I assure you most of the stock cranks are out more then .003. How do I know I have checked MANY OEM stock crank on my crank truing stand.
Been building and working on Harley s for 42 years doing but not limited to build rods, balancing the flywheels, assembling and truing EVO and earlier cranks as well as doing all machine work. I do not do pressed cranks yet but that is coming very shortly. Have 3 motors I am building for customers as we speak. 59 pan, 82 shovel and 04 twin cam. I have more in just my HD special tools then I do my rig which I bought the bike new and that is not counting any of my machines. Most Harley twin cam cranks are poor to say the least. Just talk to the many HD crank builders and see what they say as I all ready have. I spend hours doing research as I have to stay on top of things do to I work on many.
46u - 3/16/2013 5:09 PM
gnm109 - 3/16/2013 8:53 PM
46u - 3/13/2013 7:29 PM
horrorguy - 3/13/2013 11:18 PM
nice looking motor . hopefully Indian will do well with Polaris .
I think they will do to having a good all ready established company not like all the others that have tried.
As poor as Harley s are made now and as poor as the dealers treat customers I hope they give them a run for their money. And that is coming from a person that has been riding and working on Harley s none stop for 42 years.
=========================================================================
Hate to contradict. My 2011 Harley-Davidson Dyna Street Bob is the best motorcycle I've ever owned out of 40+ in the past 50 years, 16 of which were Harley-Davidsons. It has the quietest Harley engine, best clutch, best transmission, best paint and best fit and finish of all of them.It runs perfectly with pinpoint fuel injection and bullet proof ignition. It's quiet too, since I never change mufflers or modify engines. With 96 cubic inches, it's got plenty of power for me as well.
As to the specification for runout on the cranks, it's now .004 checked on a truing jig at the bearing races. They allow .010 on the end of the crank with the flywheel in the cases but even I think that's too much. Before it reaches that point, you would have severe vibration.
I looked at the Indian engine and it appears very nice. It will probably do well in Polaris terms but I'm not sure which demographic Polaris is aiming at. Most younger potential buyers won't know much about the original company and it will have to compete on its own terms. I'm hoping that they can keep the price down so as to make it a viable competitor for Harley-Davidson. We shall see.
I do find it a bit annoying that the Indian name keeps getting bought and sold. Perhaps Polaris will be able to keep it going but the last one, the Gilroy version cost lots of people their jobs and probably some retirenement value.
By my count, this is probably at least the sixth iteration of non-original Indians that wears the badge. I'm thinking of the Royal Enfields in the mid 1950's, the Floyd Cylmer Velocettes, then the first modern version that was a fraud with corresponding federal jail time. Then there was Gilroy with the Evo Clones and then the Bottlecap engine. then there was another group that claimed that they were working on a new bike but then sold out to now Polaris. Actually, I've lost count since I think there were one or two more who faded in the stretch.
There is also a four-cylinder version that is built in the UK that has a different owner. AFAIK, Polaris has the rights only in the USA since the Courts in all of the cases had no jurisdiction elsewhere.
Good luck to Polaris.
My officially HD manual says service wear limit is .003 on the bearing journals next to the fly wheel. If you have .010 on the end of the pinion shaft I assure you it will eat up the pinion bushing which is how the rods get oil and mess up the oil pump. See it too many times. does not even take that much to mess them up. Unless you have a 02 or earlier I assure you most of the stock cranks are out more then .003. How do I know I have checked MANY OEM stock crank on my crank truing stand.
Been building and working on Harley s for 42 years doing but not limited to build rods, balancing the flywheels, assembling and truing EVO and earlier cranks as well as doing all machine work. I do not do pressed cranks yet but that is coming very shortly. Have 3 motors I am building for customers as we speak. 59 pan, 82 shovel and 04 twin cam. I have more in just my HD special tools then I do my rig which I bought the bike new and that is not counting any of my machines. Most Harley twin cam cranks are poor to say the least. Just talk to the many HD crank builders and see what they say as I all ready have. I spend hours doing research as I have to stay on top of things do to I work on many.
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The specifications that I mention come from the 2011 Harley-Davidson Dyna Service Manual. That's the same crank as FL's and Softails.
42 years, huh? That would be 1971. I still have the Harley-Davidson truing jig that I bought in 1955. It's dated -37. I seldom like to talk about how long I've been doing this. How many years is that, anyway?
Nonetheless, the standard Harley-Davidson crank is perfectly fine for ordinary folks who do nothing more than touring. The problems arise when people start in boring, stroking and so forth. At that point, there are no rules and the MTTF (mean time to failure) is drastically shortened. I'll be the first to admit that Harley is a poor race engine, unless we are tlaking about an XL750 Tracker.
Then, on top of that, all we ever hear about on the Internet are the failures, either here or on one of the other bike sites. The folks who don't have a problem don't report that fact and many of them aren't on the Internet on sites.
Harley, like Honda, makes thousands and thousands of bikes that never have a problem We never hear about those. Two of my last three have been faultless and made it though the warranty period with no issues. I expect that my present one will make it to next month when the factory warranty is done.
We shall simply have to agree to disagree. Apparently you have a low opinion of Harley-Davidson and I don't. If I felt at you apparently do, I wouldn't work on them. Different strokes for different folks. (pun intended)
As to the latest Indian, (Indian Number 6?) I say good luck but I still maintain that the Indian company went out of business in late 1953. There are the originals and then there is everything else.
As to the dealer service, I've known the person who was my salesman on my present bike since 1993. He treats me very nicely and has never let me down nor have I ever heard a discouraging word form anyone at the dealership.
For some balance, I have an excellent relationship with other friends who work at Honda dealerships. I can't explain that. It's probably my charm and good looks. LOL.
I base my opinion on my experience not what I read on the Internet.
Here is what I have and more what do you have? How many motors have you built in the last 20 years? I have built hundreds. Lets compare notes.
I had my own shop for 13 years and if it was not for my health would still have it. I always had at least one motor I was building and as many as 14 at once not counting cranks, heads and cylinders I was doing. This is just SOME of what I have. I have seen MANY a stock crank in a STOCK twin cam motor twist or be so bad out of true from the factory that eat up pinion shaft bushing and oil pumps.
Do you know how Harley does the balancing and truing of cranks now??? Like I said call and talk to any crank builder if you do not beleive me. I never let a crank I build leave it was not with in .002 at the bearings and most time .001. But I have rebuilt balanced many a set of old wheels that where not in best of shape and some that where to shot to build.
Here is a jib I built for holding twin can crank when pulling or installing races and bearings. If you have a original HD truing stand a twin cam crank will not fit as it is too short. I a few weeks I will post pictures of my twin cam crank press I am building.
I all so install bearing sleeves for putting the GOOD bearings in on 03 and later.
I do not plug fit any thing or do it by feel when I am done I can tell you exactly what the fit is even on valve guides which I do not ream I hone.
Just one of the draws in one of my two roll around tool boxes with special HD tools.
