as Sven has said, no corner should go unprep'd before you get into it, slight rear brakes, strong counter-steering while in the apex corner, can help keep the car down, self monkey-ing may look stupid but is sometimes nessasary.hard front brakes is suicidal, extra balist weight is what helps these moments.....but if your heading for the rhubarb.....hope someone made a pie crust and brought ice cream,..LOL ....crawf.
One main key to safe cornering ,especially in turns into the sidecar,is the ability to read the corner prior to comitting to it. Say wHAT?
What I mean is that Road position is important. Staying out near the centerline as long as possible allows one to see through an upcoming turn better.Plan to take a late apex as this will help to prevent swinging wide wich reduces cornering speed. Swinging wide when trying to 'gather up' a sidecar rig can make you cross the centerline. This is bad especially if there is traffic coming in the other dorection.It can also be bad even if there is no traffic as many time the camber of th eroad will change once the ceterline is crossed and not in your favor.
If you can see through the turn far enough to feel it is not going to be a decreasing radius turn ,or is not littered with fallen rocks, birds, deer, jaywalkers, logs, a heard of turtles or whatever you are good to go. Entering at a safe speed is critical. Once you get into it at a safe entry speed you can accerate all you want and be in control. IT IS WHEN WE GET IN TOO HOT THAT THINGS CAN GET REAL BUSY REAL QUICKLY.Or...when we go into a turn blind and not knowing what may be coming up.
Brake in a staright line , look trough the turn and then gas it if you wish. The lagging behind effect of th esidecar when under power will actually help you steer the rig through the turn. Soon you will find that you are corning faster and feeling more secure than you did when going slower.
Once you become used to this you shoudl begin to practice using the front brake while on the throttle in the turn. This technique can help keep th esidecar down as it increases the slip angle of the rear tire.In time you will see that corner sppeds go up even more. If conering in a sprited fashion it will become a thrill to feel the rig lunge forward when the front brake is finally released totally.
Hanging off is popular with some and also has it's benefits especially on a light rig. Basically all it is doing is two things. First off it is moving some weight (yo butt) over to the sidecar side. Secondly it is giving you a more secure attack on th ecorneing forces acting on your body trying to stay in the saddle. No magic here at all. Basically all you have done is make the sidecar a little heavier which can increase cornering stability. The same forces are still acting on the rig as before. You have allowed the rig to be more stable up to a higher speed in the corner but at some point the stability will still be challnged as speed increases.
DO NOT think that you can 'save' a rig by hanging off after you are into a pucker situation. Hang off prior to the turn if you intend to practice this technique. Note that some rigs will react differently than others so practice is the key..always!
Yes, soem will testify that they were in a perdicimant and threw their bopdy weight over to th echair and saved it. Good for them but it can also get you in more trouble. With YOUR rig try this experiment:
Have soem one hold the sidecar wheel up off the ground while you are in the saddle.Get th ewheel up to the balance point. When it is there he will be holding very little weight. When it is at that point move quyickly to the hanging off position and see what he feel first as far as holding the wheel up. Many time he will have to keep th ewheel from going higher rather than the opposite. Why? As you push yourself over to the right you are also pushing the bike to the left. There is a fine line on whether you will be doing good or harm when moving over when you are already in a world of doo doo. Practice it if you wish and get used to moving over in a proper fashion and you may be abel to pull it off with skill learned by experince ratrher than luck. The option to failing in thsi maneuver is not good. Again, if you want to hang off doing so prior to the turn is by far the way to go and not in the turn.Keep in mind that gymnastics in the garage or in a slow speed parking lot practice session are good but corneing forces are much higher when you are into a 50 or
Lots of good sound advice here! iv'e been sidecaring for over 40 years & i still get underwear changing moments now & again, the trick is to survive & learn from them. one tecqnique i have developed to get rid of tailgating car drivers is to fly the chair at the first chance i can in front of offending driver you'd be amazed how big a gap he leaves. Hank
that sure does work,..however in Ontario's Highway Traffic Act,...that is now considered an act of stunting/racing like a wheelie, and as such falls under the new legislation of IMMIDIATE VEHICLE CONFISCATION, $2000.00 fine and roadside vehicle and licence suspension for 7 days , Johnny Law is very serious about this and will yank your wheels for a week, only to be argued in court later if it was justified or not ...so be careful the MAN ain't watching you do that up here,.not that we biker's ever break a law now and then .hehe cheers, crawf.
Hi Guys,
I'd been away from sidecars for about 15 years when I got my present chair. It seemed to me that for the first month or two I was living in eternal peril--I *knew* the wind was going to blow me over, or that next right-hand corner was the one that would get me.
After my trip to Montana, I did something very important: I relaxed. I've decided that if the speed-limit sign going into a corner says 35mph, or 50 mph, I can take the corner at that speed, and it's true. I do think that they should use sidecars for setting speed limits on corners, though--if we can corner at 35 but not 40, then anyone can!
Maybe it's my years, but I'm just not in a hurry anymore. I used to lift the chair with my young son in it, just because he loved it when I did, but I haven't had the new chair off the ground at all, in 3500 miles. I just go more slowly, I suppose. I had some interesting moments in western Montana in the mountains, where road construction had required detours and single-lane travel on off-camber roads, but just going slowly did the trick.
Actually, gusts of wind still scare me more than right-hand corners. That sudden feeling of dancing on oil-covered ice is something I don't like, and try to avoid, which is impossible if one is riding on Hwy 90 in eastern Washington. There *will* be wind.
Ah well--it's all good, as the children say.
One word about the posted speed signs in corners (yellow signs). They are not consistant! A turn that is marked 35 mph in one state, like maybe Pa., might be postes at 55 in a sate like W.Va. /// be warned.
Barb,
For wind, add Hiway 82 in WA, I-84 in Oregon and just about any road that runs through the desert or a Gorge.
Lonnie
I suppose. I had some interesting moments in western Montana in the mountains, where road construction had required detours and single-lane travel on off-camber roads, but just going slowly did the trick.
All of the roads in Quebec are off-camber, or pot holed like the moon!!!!
I know the feeling all too well!!!!!
Thank you Claude for that excellent explaination of inertial forces...
So Uncle Ernie, remember monkey before the bend not in it.
One small trick I apply frecuently is when the road is higher then the ground arround I often go intentionally into the ditch with the sidecar's wheel. So the rig goes down...
That does the trick quite often when you go intentionally fast (as before called: go over the edge)... but what a blast you get if there is a stone in the ditch or a hole as we have here very often....
Our roads are nasty, my rig is extremely light and imagine that just since last week I put extra weights under the seat, because I took out all the tools and spares. I am surprised what a difference in handling and safety feeling. But anyway the monkeying is part of the fun, so after the next inspection the spares and tools go into the sidecar again and the square bars go back into my prime material rack between the mill and the lathe.
Best regards
Sven
Peter Pan wrote:
>>One small trick I apply frecuently is when the road is higher then the ground arround I often go intentionally into the ditch with the sidecar's wheel. So the rig goes down...
That does the trick quite often when you go intentionally fast (as before called: go over the edge)... but what a blast you get if there is a stone in the ditch or a hole as we have here very often....<<
Lol Sven, Instant tilt adjustor right?
Note that If the 'ground' is lower than the pavement more than anticipated and the rig has minimal ground clearance to begin with the technique you mentioned can give more thrills than fast cornering speed alone coudl provide. Don't ask...lol.
Also, when the sidecar wheel comes back out of the low area it can be a rush....no biggie here if one is ready for it.
Also#2, If some squid on a solo bike is already amazed when trying his best to keep up with the 'slow old fart' on the humble sidecar rig ahead of him in the twisties and the 'old guy' drops a sidecar wheel off the road sending residue in front of Mr. knee dragger himself he may not appreciate the road rash incurred.
Yep, the technique does work but we will probably not see it portrayed in any 'how to operate a sidecar ' books.
Sorry..I will shut up now 🙂
Claude,
good laugh, you are right as always. As I never rode a low built modern street rig I didn't think about the instant turn/flip, the spark and sand farth effects at all.
With the old farth I imagine dear friend Hänschen the Porsche chaser.
There was no way to hold up with him on the solo. His belly frequently disappeared between bike and boat. Some people would call him a figthing sphear. With the eastgerman rig much less there was a change to keep up with him, All I could do was hope for gravel and sand and then pass him drifting, while he would enjoy every single pitch with 30 I would jump over them with 75kmh simmilar to a flip stone on the water.
Best regards
Sven Peter
Sven wrote:
>>good laugh, you are right as always.<<
Well Sven my faith in your judgement has fallen to an all time low from that statment alone. If you ever come to the states look me up.
Were my replies so bad? - quite a few comments from me are just for fun.
Anyhow I love to chat here allthough my better half becomes yeallous frequently. This life is by far too valuable to become a Gremmling. Better enjoy and laugh frequently. When the rain is pooring like now, there are only 3 options: continue in the shop, get wet in the dark on the rig, or go home.
For right now I read/chat and give my cat (accourding to her) badly needed pet units...
Best regards
Sven Peter
You warned him, Sven,
Your Avatar picture plainly shows that your posts should be taken " With a grain of rice". lol
Lonnie
My reply was about you saying I weas always right. Far far ,very far, from the truth.
Be well 🙂
