Connie, Lonnie, Tom , Hal and myself got side tracked on the previous thread about total cost of a sidecar.
We wound up going from matching existing paint, to whats the best new color, to the attitudes of the other drivers we encounter.
The bottom line that we all agree on was that regardless of whether the other driver is oblivious or actually wants to do us harm, we have to be on the defensive at all times. We do not have the benifit of airbags, seatbelts or crumple zones. Even a full set of leathers and a full face helmet won't prevent blunt force trauma killing you. Look waaaay down the road. Anticipate the worst. Don't count on having the right of way. When in doubt, slow down. Watch your 6 and use your mirrors all the time. Shit happens all the time, but shit happens on a motorcycle faster.
Originally written by Mark in Idaho on 7/13/2006 10:20 AM
Connie, Lonnie, Tom , Hal and myself got side tracked on the previous thread about total cost of a sidecar.
We wound up going from matching existing paint, to whats the best new color, to the attitudes of the other drivers we encounter.
The bottom line that we all agree on was that regardless of whether the other driver is oblivious or actually wants to do us harm, we have to be on the defensive at all times. We do not have the benifit of airbags, seatbelts or crumple zones. Even a full set of leathers and a full face helmet won't prevent blunt force trauma killing you. Look waaaay down the road. Anticipate the worst. Don't count on having the right of way. When in doubt, slow down. Watch your 6 and use your mirrors all the time. Shit happens all the time, but shit happens on a motorcycle faster.
Something else that I always told my kids when they were learning to ride is to always watch the front wheel of a car at an intersection. You'll see movement much quicker there than watching the vehicle or the driver. Maybe this would be a good thread for an Admin to pin to the top of the list so it's always visible to new members.
Well said Mark and Mike. And a good idea to move the topic to a thread of it's own. Now lets see what this thread morphs into...
Hmmmm like morphing into MGs (which I love, BTW and would have had a TF had not my future brother-in-law totaled his mother's car and left replacement up to you-know-who.
Sidecar Ron
There is so much to speak on here that this could be the mother of all threads. I hope many add to this one and stay on topic :-).
I've saved a lot of time and avoided a lot of grief be the simple act of keeping my eyes moving on and about the road and being aware of what is going on about 12 seconds ahead of me on the highway.
Stop lights lighting up ahead? What lane? A long line up with emergency vehicles? Is there an off ramp before the stoppage? Maybe you can avoid the tie up.
I assume every vehicle I see on or near the road is there for the sole purpose of taking me off the road. I've been right a few times and was lucky all but one time. I had three months of being laid up to think about what I didn't do right.
I assumed the other driver: Saw me, wasn't drunk, wasn't going to shut off the road in front of me, wouldn't run over me, wasn't going to leave me and my bike in a ditch broken and bloody and go home without reporting the "Accident". I was wrong.
Lonnie
I don't know if it's the heat or gas prices or what, but road rage against bikers is happening more frequently around here. All of the stories related indicate the rider was in some degree at fault. You Can NOT express anger on a bike. If necessary, pull off the road, take a detour, pull into a strangers driveway- what ever it takes.
I've learned this lesson from some scarey moments myself.
ride fast,take chances.........
mp in baja az
Some years ago I was invited to attend a week-long MC retreat courtesy of the MSF with a select group of riders from the US whose qualifications were: 40 plus years of riding, relatively accident free, ALIVE! The question was WHY? What secrets could be learned that could be distilled to go into a school to be developed by the MSF and reduce accidents and fatalities of MCists. We split into small work groups and discussed backgrounds, riding styles, rider education or lack of, every facit we could think of. Ages - from 39 to 79; experience from 40,000 to 400,000.
When all was said and done, the ONLY thing we could come up with that was the common denominator and one that did NOT suit the MSF was that the survivors had either developed or had inborn the 6th or 7th sense of impending awareness. How could the MSF possibly teach that? Yet that is what it takes.
You must train yourself to anticipate the worst at all times. For example - when driving ahead I am constantly scanning the lanes BEHIND me. The lane directly behind - no one is going to sneak up there. And the lane to the right of me. And the lane to the left of me. Then repeating this procedure again and again. I spot a blue van acting erratically back some 1/4 mile. I identify him and begin to take action. I am not there when he is now in my spot. And so on.
This awareness of what is going on around you must be practiced. It will not come naturally. Look ahead. Look to the right. Look to the left. And keep repeating this procedure. The moment you relax is when you will buy the farm.
FWIW
Hal
I have been following this thread and trying to come up with somthing NEW to add, but I can't I have been riding for 60+ years mostly on a rig of some type. Have had many close calls and a few crashes. Hal has hit the nail right on the head and has put it better than I ever could. Wish I could add to it but I cant
Ron Campbell
Grand Junction Co
Your position on the road can be important too.
Leaving some sort of 'escape route' in case evasive action is needed is a good idea. Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. If someone on the road can do something stupid they probably will.
Riding right next to a tractor trailer is inviting trouble. When you hear a tire making noise on one it can only be a matter of time until that tread comes off.
Following too close is also not smart. It is better to pass than to tailgate.
Think of all the debris that can been seen on a road LIKE PIECES OF TIRE TREAD (alligators)during hot weather. Can these things be seen and avoided in time?
Have you set yourself up for a difficult situation through lack of good lane position and not being able to see?
Riding in someone's blind spot should be avoided if at all possible.
Coming to a stop in the center of a lane at a stop light is not good as that is where all the oil drippings from other vehicles will be.
On a rig especially it is best to take a late apex when entering a turn. This allows you to see farther into the turn before comitting to a safe entry speed for it.
Don't trust other driver's use of turn signals. I have seen them signal to turn left and then turn right. Anticipate the worst.
When waiting for a light to change at a stop light use your horn or get out of the way if you see the car in front of you has her backup lights on. There are some really stupid people out there.
Look for variations or changes in the road surface up ahead. What looks dark or different in the upcoming turn can be oil on the road.Look for tire tracks coming out of the other side of these areas. Yes, even on an outfit this type of thing can get your attention although it is much more dangerous on a solo bike.
Be wary of road conditions when in cold weather. Just because the air temp is above freezing it does not mean there is not ice on the road. If wet out keep an eye on the car's tires in front of you. If water is no longer coming off of them then it may mean they are on ice. Sometimes the noise of our own tires on the road can all of a sudden get real quiet. Keep an ear out for this as it may indicate that you are on an icy surface.
What appears to be dry leaves on the road in the fall can still be very slick as the under side of them can be wet. Blasting through then to watch them fly into the air is fun but the view of this happening may end up coming from you as you are testing your leathers when sliding on the pavement yourself.
If you are riding in the rain and can't see due to a face shield fogging up or whatever or if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic for any reason get the heck off the road.
I usually ride in all conditions but draw the line in heavy fog and hail. There are times it is just best to go for a cup of coffee and wait for the road and weather conditions to come back into your favor.
In 42 years of riding and over 20 years on sidecars I have had my share of 'get offs'on the street. (Can't count on the track or off road of course). The idea of saying that is isn't 'if it will happen' but 'when' is probably not a bad one to keep in mind. Thank God in all of this only one time was another car involved and that was my own fault from not looking ahead of me.
The worst accident was one where I ended up with a badly sprained ankle, broken ribs,two fractured vertebre,a broken elbow and a compound wrist fracture not to mention that my pants were full of briers..lol. That one was due to my own stupidity as I had left my kick stand down. Solo bikes don't turn too good at 65 mph in left turns that way.
Things happen out there. There are many targets that can be hit and many times we may be the target too.( I have hit or shoudl say was hit by deer twice)
It is to our benefit to narrow the odds through training and road savy as much as possible. It does not matter in an accident if the other guy was at fault we still, whether on solo bike or outfit, will come out the loser. It i
Claude = please repost - but leave a clear line between each vital message. Your post is far too valuable but too hard to read because there are no line breaks.
Please add that as we age - get older to you youngsters, that our reflexes get slower. We must continually strive to enhance our skills or we will get slower and crash and burn.
They took my daddy's licence away from him at 89 because his reflexes were too slow. Pissed him off something awlful. He had not had an accident the past 10 years. They did not want him to have one either. Probably saved his life. He died of a heart attack at age 105. Yes, he used to ride a MC also.
Here's a trick I forgot I use all the time. Every one knows to hit the brakes when the car ahead shows his brakelights. I've always looked through the rear window of the car ahead to watch the brakelights of the next car ahead. This gives me a little more reaction time. It always amazes me that I get on my brakes before the car ahead of does. They all must be daydreaming.
So many good points. I can only add a small one. When stopped in traffic, position yourself so you are to one side or the other of the vehicle in front of you. The car behind you may be stopped but the one behind him...? This way, if you do get hit from the rear, you will be driven forward past the vehicle in front and not (literally) become the "meat in a sandwich".
This will work for solo bikes and sidecar rigs without passengers. The only thing you can do with a passenger aboard is stop a bit further back from the vehicle in front.
Sarge
OK - now we are stopped. Give a thought to the use of the EMERGENCY brake in your car/van/PU. Many leave it ON as they equate this to a PARKING BRAKE. But, on all auto trans now there is a P position for this.
The Parking brake is a mechanical brake that acts directly on the wheels and locks the wheels. The P on the auto lever works on the transmission. So what is the big difference?
Consider - you leave your car parked on the street where it is hit by another car travelling at speed. If you left it with the parking brake on the collision would be horrendous. Severe damage to BOTH cars. However, if you left it with only the P in the transmission then a sprage in the transmission would be broken off and your car would be free to roll - resulting to only minor damage to BOTH cars.
I NEVER use the parking brake - only the P of the transmission. Had a case such as described. Rental car in LA. Woman drove her car at full speed into my parked car - no sign of ANY braking prior to impact. Only minor damage to rear of rental car - which had rolled down the street a few feet - only ,inor damage to front of her car. Two small unrestrained kids rolled down from under the dash of her car - shaken but not hurt.
Would hate to think what would have happened had I left it with the Parking Brake on as conventional wisdom would dictate.
