Now I'll put a SSW> before my comments
Steve,
Your comments are in <>.
>>What a load of crap!< and what did you call it above? Fact?
>> Licensing of sidecarists in Washington state pays for sidecar training available through the Evergreen Safety Council and others. (The S/TEP course) .< it's Friday afternoon. I'll report back on this on Monday.
>>WE - sidecarists and motorcyclists - signed up for it. WE think it is a good idea. WE now have training and the ability for folks who would not otherwise be able to, to get a sidecar license and enjoy sidecars and the mobility they provide.< Huh? Before the fact a segment of the sidecar population didn't have a choice if they couldn't balance a two wheeler. After the fact two wheelers have the choice of getting a sidecar endorsement or not.
>> What do you have?< and your choice is between??? And where does a sidecarist go to et trained and how often can he have the opportunity to get the training? What choice?
>>Dave Wendell is someone dedicated to motorcycle and sidecar safety through education. To imply that he is somehow unworthy or not to be believed or unsavory is, or ought to be, beneath you.< see my other post. The words came out of your mouth. Maybe they were received in a maner other than what you intended, but your composition made this a grey area. Dave is a friend and a person of great integrity. He has been treated shabily.
I am not against training at all. I also think the S/TEP class in it's present form is good.
I am only saying that I do not agree with a mandatory additional liscense for a person who rides a three wheel vehicle.
SSW> and what about the folks for whom this was done? They should just take a pass?
If someone was to move to Washington today. Could they take a state test for sidecar operation right away? I am asking as I do not know. This thing began in '04 I think.
SSW> Yes. Of course you have to remind the DOL of that since most folks just take the course which I'm pretty sure is 50 bucks with the rigs provided. BUT as I said I will confirm and report back next week.
Why worry. Just get your endorsement and ride you hack wherever you want to go.
Hey Lonnie,
You are absolutely right! ; ) That's why I took Red Menace's class this last May. It helped me a lot and I recommend it all the time!
I just was surprised, I thought they would modify the test, to actually be a SKILL test. But you are right, it's really just more of a "Do you know where the brake and throttle are?" kinda thing. Saddest part, the other guy there taking his test right behind me kept killing it, putting his foot down, redo all over the place, and he still passed. When my husband took his test (2 wheels) he was told you flunk if you kill the bike or put your foot down through the cones. I guess the MVD guy was feeling generous that day...
Hi Karla!
thanks for the kind words! You certainly knew more than just where the clutch and where the brakes are coming into the class! It was fun teaching you and it's great to see your posts(and some posts about others running across you) as you continue to explore having fun on three wheels!
This testing arguement is a little silly. Claude has some good points- Washington hasn't done a great job of providing training sites and easy availability since passing the new licensing law. In theory "other" training is also subsidized, but in practice, Evergreen is the only show in town. My classes because they are out of state are not subsidized and do not qualify graduates for the Washington state license test waiver. I don't care about the subsidy but I do wish I could get the waiver for my students. Been working on that, maybe in the future...
Claude, you are way off base calling the Washington program a fiasco. It is a good program and Evergreens classes are top notch(I do sometimes teach for them in Seattle, so I know first hand). Even with it's shortcomings Washington has made a real effort towards making education and training specific to sidecars and trikes available - this is a good thing. If they can make the training and licensing more available in the other areas of the state it will really be a first rate program.
While I prefer the licensing approach my state has(Oregon allows you to take the motorcycle test on a trike or sidecar, but will restrict you to three wheels. If you have a valid motorcycle endorsement, you are legal on 3 or 2 wheels), the test for a 3 wheeled endorsement is a joke. At least it is (officially) standardized which is way ahead of what Florida appears to have. Unfortunaterly it is a truncated version of the moto test and it would be very difficult to fail it if you can let the clutch out without stalling the bike.
Washington is the only state I am aware of that actually requires you to demonstrate you have basic control of the vehicle before issuing a license for 3 wheels. If you can't demonstrate you can turn your sidecar right and left as well as swerve, shift, stop and start controlably you really shouldn't be driving on public streets.
My 2 cents
VW
The fiasco defined:
It is now a law that anyone who is going to operate a three wheel sidecar or trike in Washington State MUST have a liscense specifically for that in addition to a two wheeled liscense if they have one of those.
You must take a state test or state approved teast.
State tests are few and far betwen and of questionable value
Evergreen classes are approved and you will get a liscense by taking and passing the course. The class is partially subsidised bvy the state. This means that a clas which cost typically 250 bucks or whatever now costs 100 bucks to the student. Of course evergreen still gets their price through the subsidy.
Everyone who say show great it is makes a good point as the class is a decent one by evergreen.
No doubt that Evergreen likes this setup very well as they are a 'for profit' organization.
Vernon said I made some good points. (Claude has some good points- Washington hasn't done a great job of providing training sites and easy availability since passing the new licensing law. In theory "other" training is also subsidized, but in practice, Evergreen is the only show in town.) Then he said (Claude, you are way off base calling the Washington program a fiasco. It is a good program and Evergreens classes are top notch(I do sometimes teach for them in Seattle, so I know first hand). Even with it's shortcomings Washington has made a real effort towards making education and training specific to sidecars and trikes available - this is a good thing. If they can make the training and licensing more available in the other areas of the state it will really be a first rate program.)
Herein lies a key to what a part of the fiasco is. State programs are apporved but not available..'other ' programs may be apporved but Evergreen 'is the only show in town'.
Then Vernon says: "I prefer the licensing approach my state has(Oregon allows you to take the motorcycle test on a trike or sidecar, but will restrict you to three wheels. If you have a valid motorcycle endorsement, you are legal on 3 or 2 wheels)"
This is a common approach that many if not all states have taken. VERNON SAID HE PREFERS IT.
So ... if this is so then all of Steve's arguments woudl apply to Vernon's stance also.
Steve's stance is stated in his previous posts. He said my opinions was 'a bunch of crap'.
Again I am not against traing at all. I think Evergreens course is a dencent one in it's present form. I am not , however, in favor of mandatory additional liscenseing for a three wheeler. Especially if it is going to beefit a for profit organization because they are th eonly game in town. If this is a 'bunch of crap' then so be it.To me it is a FIASCO in it's present form.
By the way I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO FEELS THIS WAY...maybe the only one 'foolish' enough to state it though.
Ol' Full of crap Claude...where is that exlax anyhow? 🙂
Claude, I hope that I misread your last comment re: licensing in Washington.
You said it is now law that anyone operarting a sidecar rig in Wash. must have a 3 wheel endorsement. I, one of many who claim to be SKUNK #0001, live in Wisconsin, a state which does not require any extra endorsement. Certainly Washington will allow me as a visiting non-resident to operate my rig there without any of this nonsense (my opinion only). Fred F. AKA Newfiedad
Good thing you don't live in Washington.
I know this will stir the pot some, but if it got us subsidized training I'd like it to go nationwide. Here in Wisconsin there's only one place to go for sidecar training, they charge $375, and both times I called to try to get Jennifer in I was told they were booked for the season. Try again next year.
But then, I'd also like to see a single Federal Driver's license and motor vehicle code so it would be uniform nationwide instead of always guessing which laws apply to which state.
Originally written by SidecarMike on 10/24/2006 8:34 PM
I know this will stir the pot some, but if it got us subsidized training I'd like it to go nationwide. Here in Wisconsin there's only one place to go for sidecar training, they charge $375, and both times I called to try to get Jennifer in I was told they were booked for the season. Try again next year
(Hiding behind your post...lol) I tend to agree, CA has NO training from what I've searched online. Subsidized or not. Thank goodness for the kindness of USCA folks who will be assisting me from the get go.
Originally written by newfiedad on 10/24/2006 7:33 PM
Claude, I hope that I misread your last comment re: licensing in Washington.
You said it is now law that anyone operarting a sidecar rig in Wash. must have a 3 wheel endorsement. I, one of many who claim to be SKUNK #0001, live in Wisconsin, a state which does not require any extra endorsement. Certainly Washington will allow me as a visiting non-resident to operate my rig there without any of this nonsense (my opinion only). Fred F. AKA Newfiedad
I wrote it wrong.It applies to residents only.
Click here for details on the Washington State sidecar training. If I am reading this right you have to take the S/TEP course if you are a resident at 100 bucks. Is that the only option?
http://tinyurl.com/ym2ure
Originally written by Charlie37 on 10/18/2006 10:33 PM
I'm a newbie with a Suzuki C-50 and a Velorex 563.
I'm looking for information on the Florida Skills test. The only thing I was able to get from the Driver License Bureau pertains to a two wheel vehicle.
I'd appreciate any input.
OK I am lost here what does Washington State have to do with the question ask that started this post.
Claude,
You don't have to take the S/TEP course. You can take the written test (mostly just state driving regulations) for $5. Then you can purchase a permit for $15. which will allow you to drive during daylight hours without passengers until you feel you are able to take the driving test, which consists of mainly driving a slalom course around pylon cones without knocking them over or stalling the rig.
The State will now subsidize the first $100. of sidecar training if taken.
Lonnie
Originally written by RichardMc4 on 10/24/2006 8:18 PM
OK I am lost here what does Washington State have to do with the question ask that started this post.
NOTHING-this thread has been HIJACKED!
however, it looks like you answered his question as best as it is likely to be answered in the third post:
Florida apparently does not have a standardized test for sidecars.
The test will vary from site to site.
He needs to contact the testing office he plans to use to find out what is expected of him.
I gleaned this from the previous posts and have no personal knowedge as to the accuracy of the information( but afterall, this is the internet 😉
I might add, Charlie, when you contact the office to find out the testing requirements, you should write down or get their response in writing and make a note of who you speak to. The big problem with non standardized testing is it will vary not only from site to site, but from bureaucrat to bureaucrat. Sometimes this works to your advantage; often it does not.
VW
