'morning. Been riding since the mid-70's, starting with Can-Am MX-125, then on to Honda CB350, then hiatus for about 15yrs, then back in with '79 CBX & a while later picked up my '84 H-D FLTC. Still have the last 2. Got my wife interested in biking a few years back & got her a '99 Drifter 800.
Been considering hacks since see a few around town here. Saw a couple of used Velorex units on a ride with my wife a few years ago & thought about buying one, 'cause the guy had it mounted on an '84 H-D FLH, so the mounts would've bolted right up to my FLTC.
My research to date leads me to some assumptions that I'm hoping I can get feedback on.
1. My understanding is that if I get a hack for my FLTC I can expect to see increased rear tire wear? I'm getting about 16,000Km out of my current rear tire (Avon Venom-X) & about double that on the front.
2. I'm not into high speed riding normally (except for playing on my CBX occasionally) & I've heard (& seen on this site) that I'll have learning to ride again with a hack, but will there be a large impact on fuel economy? I know what mileage I get solo now & it's great if I take it easy.
3. I see some references to not having a light hack like Velorex on a heavy bike like a H-D. Does that mean I should be looking at the H-D's or Urals?
4. I've just read the article in Canadian Biker about the Ural line & it's attractively priced & I've researched them before. I'm getting tempted to get one & am curious about them on highway use. I'll generally cruise around 90-105Km/h & want to make sure that they'll be able to maintain that. I much prefer taking side roads & other scenic tours. Leaning towards Patrol or Gear-Up.
Anyhow, I hope I haven't stirred anyone up too much or offended anyone, but let's see where this goes.
Regards
Gary K
Hi Gary.
Not particularly addressing any of the issues you brought up but maybe some others... You're undoubtedly aware that this involves a whole different set of skills than riding on two wheels. Like you, I'd ridden on two wheels for a lot of years. When my wife decided she wanted to quit riding with me altogether for various reasons I thought maybe my pup would ride if I came up with a way. I'd been intrigued by Urals for a while so thought that would be a way to find out if Archie liked to ride and if I liked riding on three wheels. I also thought maybe Barb would like the hack better than the view of the back of my helmet. He did. I did. She didn't. Two out of three ain't bad! In a fairly short time I found myself riding the Ural way more than the Harley. Extremely fun. For a couple years the Harley mostly sat gathering cob webs. But when I would get back on the Harley I was amazed at the power it had after being used to riding the Ural. Last August I sold the Ural and ordered a Liberty from Pete. I'm glad I spent the time on the Ural developing the skills required. Maybe someday I'll have another solo bike. Maybe not. Maybe someday I'll have another Ural to go along with the H-D/Liberty outfit. Maybe not. Maybe someday Barb will try the Liberty on for size. Probably. But what ever the future holds, we're (Archie and I) are having loads of fun! Regardless of the decreased fuel mileage or increased tire wear or any of the other factors, there's no going back!
Thanks for the info, Tom. Yeah, I was seriously considering the sidecar for doggie reasons, too. My wife & I have had Target, our Old English Sheepdog, for many years now, & she's always so despondent when I take off to work (I work 4 days out of 7 at a fly in / out mine) or go out for a ride. So I thought that she'd love to go for a ride with me. But, she's getting old now & has maybe a year or 2 left (don't like to think about it) so I don't know if that's the best reason to buy a hack. But the Ural sure looks interesting & is priced attractively. As far as power, yeah, I like my relatively stock '84 Evo. Lots of HOG members say upgrade to Twin Cam for more power, but my bike's got me out to BC & back & has more than enough power for me & gets great gas mileage. I'll keep looking to see what I think of other sidecars, but I am interested in feedback from those who have hands-on personal experience, to learn about the pros & cons of lighter & heavier units, etc.
Regards
Gary K
I'm new to sidecars last August, so I can't coment about tire wear just yet. I bought an 83 Honda GL650 with a Dneper sidecar. I did find that my gas milage improved when I reduced the toe in on the chair. The gas milage went from 37 mpg to 40 mpg. I'm told that I could get 50 mpg without the sidecar. I'm sure that the reduced toe in will improve my tire wear from scrubbing as well.
I also considered the Ural, but I just couldn't justify the 55mph top speed living in Southern Idaho. Even though the engine size is about the same, my Honda will top out at 85 mph.
I've been riding a little this winter in the snow. I'm real selective about what road conditions I will attempt. Even with studded snow tires, my traction is poor in anything over 2 inches of snow. I don't have swingarm clearance for chains. I will look at a smaller profile tire when it's time to replace the one I have on now so that I can use chains in the deep stuff.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Gary,
A used older Velorex would work fine on your wife's Drifter. Not a good choice for the FLTC.
In answer to your questions:
1- You will have increased rear tire wear with a sidecar attached. The answer to this is a flatter tread tire or one with a harder compound.
A Dunlop 402P (Police)comes to mind for better wear.
2- Expect 15 to 20% less fuel mileage with a loaded hack (dependent on speeds) anything much above 65 MPH on your Harley will put you in the 20% range.
3- You're probably going to be above 900# on the bike. Using a nominal desired weight ratio of 1/3 hack and 2/3's bike you should have the sidecar weight at around 300#. This can be achieved by a heavy sidecar, ballast (temporary or permanent), or passenger/cargo load.
4- The URAL will probably not give you the performance that you desire on the highway. 105 klicks is at the top end of their range. Due to the power restrictions you will be spending a lot of time in the lowers gears even on backroads.
5- For you're desired usage, the Drifter with a '05 or '06 Velorex Cruiser would be a well performing and economical choice.
For a used market mount for the Harley Bagger you need a larger car.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar
I have a Kawasaki Nomad with a Velorex 562b (I think) mounted it about last Oct. the Kaw is heavier than the Road King. Anyway the truth of the matter is the sidecar rigs are ill handling rigs and you have to get used to it, there is no high speed anything, anymore. Do I like it? yes. But with my legs the way they are I really have no choice, I am sure the more I ride it the better my skills will become and the more used to it I will get. The car is to light, I run 120# of ballast. It is a totally different experience and I am digging it for that.
As several other have said, riding a motorcycle and driving a sidecar have very little in common. Infact a helmet and gloves are about the only thing. I have a flhtcui with a Motorvation Spyder attached. The sidecar is a bit light for the bike (but heavier than a Velorex) and without ballast emergency moves can "overpower" your intended reaction. Heavy bikes and light sidecars and visa versa are not perfect matches. To learn, you want your rig to handle smoothly no abruptly.
Excpect 25% decrease in Gas mileage and tire wear. My Harley went from high 40's MPG to low 40's MPG. And tire wear went from 15K to 11K. Facts of life. As per the fuel mileage, yes the increase in weight is a huge factor but I think the wind resistance is also significant. Weighing aprox the same, with my grandson and ballast I get better mileage than with my very tall buddy (who sticks out of the thing). I am planning on experimenting with a tall wind screen to see if the wind deflection adds to mileage???????
You're doing the right thing, asking lots of questions. But there will come a time when you just jump in. And again you will be completely lost.
Forget the practical numbers of MPG etc. There are no practical reasons to own a sidecar or a motorcycle. For a lot less money you can buy a used Toyota that will get good mileage and have a heater. Motorcycles with or without sidecars have no place in logic. The Damned things are just fun and addictive. And for many of us, therapy.
Come on in the water's fine.
Thanks for the info. Not really looking to put a unit on my wife's Drifter at this point in time. She's actually looking to sell it this year to get a 1986 H-D FLH that's for sale at our local stealership. But the Drifter's such a nice bike that I'm hoping we don't actually sell it. Like I mentioned I normally don't cruise at higher speeds, & 90-100Km/h is just fine for me. Just means that most, if not all, of the HOG members in our chapter leave me way back in their dust. Good to know about the harder compound on the Dunlop.
Gary K
Thanks for the info. Don't see many of the CX models (500 or 650) around my way. Have seen 1 or 2 but generally not on the road. Might try to pick up a unit if I see 1 that doesn't look like they're using it. I remember when the 500 came out & all the press coverage. I, too, find the Ural's maximum speed a bit of a hindrance, 'cause it would really restrict me from certain roads where you wouldn't want to get run over. I've been out riding, at least once a month, even through winter most years, on the H-D. As long as it's not below -5 to -10C I'll bundle up & take the bike out for a spin. Rest of the time it sits in a heated garage on a Battery Tender (all 3 bikes on Tenders, plus other equipment that sits for extended periods). I haven't been to Southern Idaho, but DID go through Northern Idaho once when I left Washington & started heading East (Coeur d'Alene?). Beautiful area.
Gary K
Thanks for the info. Yeah, there are times where motorcycles just aren't practical. But I use mine mostly for stress relief. I work outa town 4 days out've 7 at a fly in / out mining site (supporting computer systems, radio, TV & phones), so by the time I get home I'm in need of something to de-stress. I find that going for a nice ride in the country on my FLT lets me empty my mind & get back to enjoying life. My acquaintances with loaded Ultras with stereos & tons of accessories keep telling me to trade up to a new Ultra, but I'm happy with my "Chevy" FLTC that's very basic. I've rolled back some of the changes the previous owners did (went back to OEM '84 mufflers, air cleaner with K&N, etc). Added just a few small things (lowers, luggage rack on the tour pack & most of all, a replacement seat off eBay by Mustang). I can cruise for hours & hours, just humming to myself or thinking about anything but work. No radio. I bought a radio caddy for it & even had it mounted for a while with a cheap radio in it, but when the radio pooched, I removed the whole thing & I don't really miss it all that much. I'll keep watching & learning & see what happens. I've almost bought a H-D sidecar once but we'll see. My wife's getting a bit more tolerant of my little spending impulses.
Gary K
. My understanding is that if I get a hack for my FLTC I can expect to see increased rear tire wear? I'm getting about 16,000Km out of my current rear tire (Avon Venom-X) & about double that on the front.
yep,you can burn through a set of tires in acoupla three good days................
can't beat it with a stick though.
neeeeeeeext...........
mp
03bmwgs adv
Sebjones> sidecars have no place in logic. The Damned things are just fun and addictive. And for many of us, therapy.<
….Now Sam....that’s one of the few things I’ve read and actually understood.
duck
Hi Lonnie. What about Dnepr sidecars? I see someone selling them new on eBay for reasonable prices, & apparently they're made of steel, so they should weigh more. Pic's even show one on a H-D & doesn't look too bad (once paint is matched up). It doesn't say if the mounts are included, but shows a pic of mounting using a universal kit.
Gary K
Originally written by kajutisg on 3/4/2006 6:43 AM
4. I've just read the article in Canadian Biker about the Ural line & it's attractively priced & I've researched them before. I'm getting tempted to get one & am curious about them on highway use. I'll generally cruise around 90-105Km/h & want to make sure that they'll be able to maintain that.
Gary, you might want to check out my website. I own an '06 FXDI and an '05 Ural Tourist rig, there's lots of info on my Ural (including a web log) that should be of help:
http://www.gummiente.ca
And next time you're down my way (just east of Kingston, ON), I'll buy the coffee.
*EDIT* Almost forgot... have your wife check out VDOGON, a club for Drifter owners in Canada that I founded back when I had my '99 1500 Drifter:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vdogon/
I agree with 2/3 & 1/3 rule. Both with weight and cost....how do you justify putting a $2,000 sidecar on a 24K bike? You can find a FINE sidecar that will actually fit your bike for 5K..and get exactly what you want for not much more. You can make a Velorex/Ural fit a big twin, but why? There are several companies that make an appropriate sized rig for a HD without going through the heroics of adding weight or using your brother in laws engineering degree.
You can buy a cheap rig and spend a ton getting it "right" or you can spend the same amount and not end up with something you can't ride and can't sell. Look on ebay! Several rigs that people went with the wrong sidecar and can't get rid of them.
I own a 92 softail with a Champion Legend.....good fit....looks great too.
I own a 05 Wing with a Hannigan GTL....GREAT FIT...even better looking.
My Honda will run with two wheelers with no problem....it's a high performance set up. As many here will tell you in some cases a good sidecar rider can out run a two wheeler, but most of us don't recomend trying it......much! HAHAHA!
The HD is a great rig, but not a sport rig. Purpose is important when you are deciding what it is you want. Remember you are going from two bikes for each of you to One for both. You will save money in the long run on the bike, maint., gas, insurance, etc....so a sidecar is a bargan at any price! Plus you can pack more than a briefcase full of cloths.
Just my humble opinion.
Dundertaker
pgdvg@yahoo.com
