I didn't hijack this thread with my H-D comments.
My comments were in direct response to people stating things like: $5000.00 set up fees. $9300 set up estimates. Poorly welded subframes. Subframes that need re-enforced. Broken mounts. Rewelding mounts. 3 out of 4 "custom" mounts not fitting.
When people talk about broken mounts between a sidecar and a tug, the first words that comes to my mind are: "injury and death"....followed by "not safe"
"Safer" stems from the fact that H-D builds specific mounts for specific bikes for specific years for specific sidecars. The service manuals are specific. There are set-up videos available from the factory.
Harley-Davidson dealers are independent. H-D is not a franchise operation, they "license" their products. So there is certain "customer/product focus" factor involved.....but...the Motor Company provides everything they can to the dealer.....whether any specific dealer takes advantage of the information that H-D makes available is what makes one better than another....whether it's hanging tubs or installing stage kits.
Resale values can be found in the latest NADA guides. Do a comparison and you'll find that H-D has the best resale numbers.
For the record: I spent a year researching rigs before I settled on H-D. I recently completed a 26 week, 18000 mile tour of N. America with my dog Rusty. Tires and oil changes were my only rig expenses.
There are many more good combinations of bike and sidecar out there than bad ones.
There are many more good subframes out there than bad ones.
There are many more good welds out there than broken ones.
There are many more sidecarists and their faimlies out there enjoying their rides than not.
The bad gets to press but the good does not.It is too bad that some have had problems. I only wish there was a simple way to help correct them from this keyboard but there isn't.
Claude wrote:
There are many more good combinations of bike and sidecar out there than bad ones.
There are many more good subframes out there than bad ones.
There are many more good welds out there than broken ones.
There are many more sidecarists and their faimlies out there enjoying their rides than not.
The bad gets to press but the good does not.It is too bad that some have had problems. I only wish there was a simple way to help correct them from this keyboard but there isn't.
I agree....and there are probably many more satisfied Dauntless customers than unhappy ones. But....motorcycles and sidecars are serious business...like airplanes....make a mistake and somebody gets killed.
There is only one way to "fix" the problem: "Universal Standards". I don't see that happening as the industry in general seems to ignore the sport of side-caring.....and I don't know that it would be a good thing as it invites the guvment to regulate the whole thing.
So we remain a cottage industry.
I think the Brit's have a saying for this.
"Yee pyes yer monney and Yee tykes yer chances."
Cheers,
Lonnie
Ditch wrote:
>>There is only one way to "fix" the problem: "Universal Standards". I don't see that happening as the industry in general seems to ignore the sport of side-caring.....and I don't know that it would be a good thing as it invites the guvment to regulate the whole thing.<<
The basic 'standards' of sidecar attachement today is much better then we used to see. Years back we had seen sidecars attached with hardware store ready rod and things like that more than once. We saw many more cobbled up attachements than we will ever see again.
Today most rigs we see do seem to be mounted prety well. I think much of this has been due to the internet , magaizines like hack'd and the sidecarist and so forth.
Govermnment regulation? It would totally change the sport across the board. For the better? I think not...not at all.
Claude,
Yes, the bad gets the press as a warning that there are consequences for being bad, and serves as valuable insight for the innocent and uninformed.
Mike
WOW! Over 2000 looks again at this subject. I guess if you do screw up more than a couple of times, no amount of "support" will ever make you good, or whole, again. Dauntless just needs to accept the fact that they have a lot of non-friends out here in the sidecar world. And a few supporters. But as I read and agree with, not only does the squeeky wheel get the grease, but a bad deal will fester faster than a boil on your arse, and hurt a lot more. Pain lingers. Bad memories are forever.
"you pays your money and takes your choice".
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but perhaps somewhere in there
is a reply from Dauntless. And if not, why not?
If there is a lack of confidence on the part of some customers I would think the company in question would want to respond to those concerns as quickly as possible.
Howard
Just my 2 cents
Claude made a very valuable point:
The rig's safety has improoved a lot allthough technical inspection guidelines for rigs are (both in Germany and US) still valid since the thirties and didn't recieve much improvement since then. But the vendors and producers (most of them) did improove quite a bit, because they "had to" hold up to the needs of modern bikes that are much more powerfull and demanding. I mainly applaude here the Westeuropean producers who put things on wheels that do not have very much in common with a "motorcycle with an attached sidecar (willow chair like 100 years ago)".
We rig pushers are very individually orientated persons. Imagine that goverments would start to standardize rigs too as they did with cars. Our individualism would be cut down as bad as in Orson Wells "1984".
No thanks with me!
We as the owners and drivers are the main responsible for safety. If for any reason the shop doesn't fullfill our quality demands, the only one to blame is "us" ourself because we didn't select the right shop for the right job, or we were too lazy to learn to make the maintenance ourselves right
--- well enough for now: I will continue reading "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance." (Not much new on maintenance, but a lot of philosofical analysis that helps to put on a straight line my own thoughts and practical experiences in engineering and philosofy)
Best regards
Sven
I'm surprised by the bad experiences people have had with Jay/Dauntless. I've put 1100 miles on the Suzuki Burgman 650/Kenna rig he set up for me. He delivered my completed rig in the time frame he committed to, longer than I wanted (5 weeks), but he was upfront about it and walking around his shop it was obvious they were quite busy. The rig appeared structurally and cosmetically sound when delivered. Of the 1100 miles I've put on it, around 900 has been highway/back road (about half of that with a 190 pound passenger), and around 200 miles off road (abandoned dirt logging roads and dirt trails). Made some very hard landings off road while learning to fly the chair. After reading this post, I pulled the tuperware and re-inspected, no problems found, still structurally/cosmetically sound. I'm waiting for the Kymco 700cc maxi scooter to hit the US, then I'll be taking one to Dauntless to mount my new sidecar as the wife has decided that the Burgman/Kenna is now her's.....
I have to disagree. I have had occaision to use Dauntless for three projects and I have had excellent experiences each time. The first project was some custom work on my 2001 Harley factory rig. I was so pleased I came back a year later to have Jay set up my new Kawasaki 2000cc Vulcan/Champion Escort. This included designing a custom triple tree. Finally, last year, I had Dauntless set up my '02 1800 Goldwing with a new Liberator, including their re-engineered steerable 3rd wheel, unit forks, and a custom fuel cell under the car. With several thousand miles all works perfectly. They even upgraded the auxillary fuel pump free of charge and fine tuned the set up to suit me better.....no hassle, no charge! I wouldn't hesitate to use Dautless. You just need to have patience as he has a small staff and they work on things in order. Ask lots of questions to make sure you have realistic expectations.
I'm sure someone at dauntless has been reading all of these posts it would be nice to here from them to here there side .
Plain and simple for the money that dauntless charges for sub-frame kits
there should be no excuse something that doesn't fit. They should refund moeny asap!! But they don't
I call it legalized Stealing
I have an idea if it dosest fit then don't sell itsaying it fit!!!
Originally written by ace on 3/27/2008 6:18 PM
I'm sure someone at dauntless has been reading all of these posts it would be nice to here from them to here there side .
Plain and simple for the money that dauntless charges for sub-frame kits
there should be no excuse something that doesn't fit. They should refund moeny asap!! But they don'tI call it legalized Stealing
I have an idea if it dosest fit then don't sell itsaying it fit!!!
You can go to a thousand different websites condemning Walmart, but I've yet to see Walmart log on to one to defend itself.
I'm seeing this same thread posted on a dozen different sites, each time a cut and paste of the exact same message. If a vendor did want to defend himself it would be a full time job just trying to find where it's being posted.
Next, every time someone posts that they have had good service from the same shop, they are accused of trying to protect a site sponsor. Why would the dealer feel he would be treated any different?
Sorry but it is time Dauntless got the roasting they deserve. I have read arguments from both sides, satisfied and dissatisfied customers. In a minority interest such as sidecars it is important to share valued information about a company be it good or bad. I don't want to see any sidecar business doing bad business as it affects us all but if people in America were a tad more blunt like our friends in Europe, perhaps Dauntless would have got their sh!t together and avoided what is ultimately going to put them out of business. I had a terrible time a few years ago that cost me a ton of money, hours, miles and anguish bacause of Jay and the so called "custom" crud they were churning out at Dauntless. It was certainly not resolved in my favor but I held my tongue as I don't like to get involved in any type of agro. After reading all I have read I can't help but feel a little guilty for not having blown the whistle. It's done now and I hope it will prevent others from having to deal with the expense and anguish that many of us had to deal with. A lesson to us all, anyone or any operation doing damage to our community needs the whistle blown on them.
