The Ice Ride from the beginning:
http://home.hccnet.nl/ride.on/eng/common/
If you need two side-car, buy a convertible bond! If you need more space Maybe you should consider trailer.This would be safer.
JayDauntless - 3/29/2004 8:21 PM
My concern is that this now has 4 wheels and as such is no longer a bike as federal law defines a motorcycle as having 3 or fewer wheels.
This would also apply to the "Voyager" and "insta trike" kits as well as the new EML sidecar with two wheels.
I bet if there was an accident a lawyer would have fun in court with it.
The Federal Law was what I came up against in the 1980's. I had an idea for over ten years to build a sidecar that looked just like an Indy race car. The concept was to have the sidecar front wheel steer with the motorcycle front wheel. I developed a push pull arrangement so that when the handle bars where turned left or right the front sidecar wheel would turn the same degree. The body was built off a Lotus formula race car body that I had been manufacturing for Team USA Lotus. I think that was there name. It's been almost thirty years. I had the two wheel sidecar almost completed and went to the State of New Hampshire for approval. they told me that I would have to register the complete unit as a car, and would have to comply with all the regulations of a car. That was the end of two wheel sidecar project.
I later moved to South Carolina and the two wheel sidecar concept was nothing but a memory. While at a motorcycle event in Charlotte I had two of my Liberty style sidecars on display, and for sale. A gentleman named Larry Dodson wheeled up to me in has hopped up wheelchair wanting to discuss the possibility of having me design a sidecar for him. He wanted a sidecar with a door on it so that he could transfer from his wheelchair into the sidecar, and drive the unit from the sidecar. I reached into my library of experiences, and new how I would steer the contraption. I would use the same push, pull rods that I had used on the two wheel sidecar fifteen years earlier. I explained to him that Harley didn't have a bike with an automatic transmission, but that Honda had manufactured a few different models in the late 70's. As the show was going on we sat and designed on a napkin the basic concept. Come to find out Larry was a former combat vet and had been in a wheelchair for thirty years. At the time I couldn't think of a better project to spend my spare time on. A few weeks later Larry arrives at my home pulling a motorcycle trailer with his band new Caddy. Larry had his own buisness doing accounting and tax preparation. He didn't want any hand outs from anyone.
He had purchased a 1979 Honda 750 motorcycle for the project. It took me a year and a half to design and fabricate the sidecar and wheelchair lift. O, Ya, I forgot to mention about the wheelchair lift. With Larry sitting in the sidecar there was no place for the wheelchair. I finished the sidecar design in a few months, but the lift took some time to figure out. Once I engineered the lift it only took a few more months to complete.
I used a rack and pinion steering from a Honda car, and the same design from years earlier. Using half of the steering unit I installed rod, and ends like the kind I used on my race cars. With a small 10" steering wheel Larry could turn the wheel and the motorcycle front wheel would turn. The throttle and brake where placed on his left side. I cut half of a handle bar and placed it coming out of the dash board at a slight angle. All Larry had to do was twist the grip with his left hand and he had throttle. The brake was just a few inches away from the twist grip. I placed a disk brake on the sidecar, and used the front disk brake on the motorcycle. No brake on the rear wheel. Larry would reach with his right arm and push, or pull the shift lever into gear, and off he went.
Larry cried when I delivered his one of a kind sidecar to his home in Indian trail North Carolina. He hadn't been on a motorcycle in over thirty years. It was one of the most rewarding project I've had the pleasure to build in my long carrier. Larry drove his sidecar over ten thousand miles a year for around five of six years. His health started to diminish and Larry died around seven or eight years ago. Because of a crazy sidecar design Larry was able to get out on the open road and ride with his other veteran brothers in the later part of his life. For that Ill be forever great full.
I didn't mention that when Larry had me design his sidecar he wanted the sidecar on the left side, not the right. He wanted to be able to do his banking. This also gave him a better way to see oncoming traffic without the motorcycle being an obstruction.
I have yet to figure out how to place pictures on this site even though I've had good instructions from many of you. If any of you would like to see Larry's sidecar just send me an email, and I can sent you an attachment.
Later, Johnny Sweet jsweet450@yahoo.com
Yep. The Wallick is the one I was just going to post about. Can't really imagine riding it on some of the streets I ride, even if was legal. I value my passengers (well, most of them) to much for the Texas freeways in one of these. But, what a fun idea for the right location.
There are four photos in my album here that show tandem hacks on the rig. Not sure who did them or just why. I have absolutely no info on any of them, either. I have no idea how to link to the album here, but it is in Huey's Hack Pooch Photos album at this site.
Is this the sidecar rig you were thinking of?
I'm sure it could be done, as shown in the You Tube offering. The question I have is why would anyone want to do so? I'm almost certain that it would be illegal in many jurisdictions, California for one. That is, adding the fourth wheel would make it qualify as an automobile. That would then require smog testing and a whole different set of rules.
Besides that, the addition of the extra weight and framework would affect handling, fuel mileage and require additional braking.
In short, the whole thing would be a pain. Just my humble opinion.
gnm109 - 7/25/2011 8:20 PM
I'm sure it could be done, as shown in the You Tube offering. The question I have is why would anyone want to do so? I'm almost certain that it would be illegal in many jurisdictions, California for one. That is, adding the fourth wheel would make it qualify as an automobile. That would then require smog testing and a whole different set of rules.
Besides that, the addition of the extra weight and framework would affect handling, fuel mileage and require additional braking.
In short, the whole thing would be a pain. Just my humble opinion.
I tend to agree with you...................'WHY????"
Asking "why" would probably relate to any mod ever made on a hack rig or any motorcycle or street rod known to man. Why do any of us ever change a thing on our rides? Likely because we either simply wanted to or wanted a challenge. Maybe just marching to a different drum. What flavors one person's taste may not work well for anyone else, but the final result is really all about what the individual is happy with. The why question can usually be mated with a why not question. Like an oil thread, neither really ever gets much resolved. From rat rods to tandem sidecars, life is just chocked full of different tastes and desires. Not all satisfy everyone. Maybe he just did such to show it could be done? Maybe it was for a personal challenge. Maybe he had a large family to transport or more than one dog? Just interesting to view such things and poke fun at 'em or say, "Man, that is crazy as a bat out of hades as far as being useful, but I like it..." Who knows? 🙂
Pat Huey - 7/27/2011 6:27 AM
Asking "why" would probably relate to any mod ever made on a hack rig or any motorcycle or street rod known to man. Why do any of us ever change a thing on our rides? Likely because we either simply wanted to or wanted a challenge. Maybe just marching to a different drum. What flavors one person's taste may not work well for anyone else, but the final result is really all about what the individual is happy with. The why question can usually be mated with a why not question. Like an oil thread, neither really ever gets much resolved. From rat rods to tandem sidecars, life is just chocked full of different tastes and desires. Not all satisfy everyone. Maybe he just did such to show it could be done? Maybe it was for a personal challenge. Maybe he had a large family to transport or more than one dog? Just interesting to view such things and poke fun at 'em or say, "Man, that is crazy as a bat out of hades as far as being useful, but I like it..." Who knows? 🙂
I think you are stretching the issue to the breaking point. Sidecars, Hot Rods and the like have a great deal of utility. They can be used in regular traffic and will do what they are designed to do.......safely.
A "dual sidecar" is an anomoly. It's neither fish nor fowl. If you whink it's a great idea, why not build one? It's OK with me. I'd sure like to see it. After it's done, I'd like to know how often you will be using it.
Come to think of it, following your line of reasoning, why not a quadruple or septuple sidecar....i.e., two or three tubs on each side? Just to see if it can be done, of course.
I'll tell you why not, or at least why I would never do it.....it's a silly waste of time and material with no use other than for a museum of oddities or perhaps a segment on Believe it or Not.
JMO.
Well, nice to know your own personal reasoning, but that is an opinion that works for you. I never said I wanted one at all, nor would I be interested in building one or even driving it about. To ask "why" someone else would build one is akin to asking for a final answer on the typical oil thread. They do so for their own personal reasons or maybe just a whim or personal challenge idea, regardless of what others may believe is crazy, zanny, a waste of time, a safety issue or so forth. Not everyone in the world has the same tastes or opinons of such things, as you have expressed. To me, I'd not want to personally own one, but I can sure understand why someone else may be interested in such and enjoy it for themselves. I've seen hacks made up as planes, VW vans, Alcohol bottles and a whole lot of other crazy stuff out there. Some of those are actually drivable and on the roads, too. Obviously someone wanted to build them and own them. I find them interesting to look at and often pretty zanny, crazy, weird or so forth. As to building or owning one myself with the intent to use it as a daily driver style of hack rig, I have no need. My dog-mobile Ural keeps me happy, as is. One hobby at a time is enough to keep me broke, so I'll likely stick with the stock Ural. 🙂
Interesting you mention such, but I also have a pic or two of quadruple sidecars, too, but I think they are mostly photo shopped ones. 🙂
Always fun to see and imagine the different ideas out there, whether practical or not. And, I have to think my kids would love something like the Wallick where they didn't have to sit together. Then, instead of fighting for who sits farthest from the bike, the fight would be who gets the left or right tub. In my opinion, thinking outside of the box, even if it breaks the box, is what gets us most serious innovations.
Pat Huey - 7/29/2011 6:47 AM
Well, nice to know your own personal reasoning, but that is an opinion that works for you. I never said I wanted one at all, nor would I be interested in building one or even driving it about. To ask "why" someone else would build one is akin to asking for a final answer on the typical oil thread. They do so for their own personal reasons or maybe just a whim or personal challenge idea, regardless of what others may believe is crazy, zanny, a waste of time, a safety issue or so forth. Not everyone in the world has the same tastes or opinons of such things, as you have expressed. To me, I'd not want to personally own one, but I can sure understand why someone else may be interested in such and enjoy it for themselves. I've seen hacks made up as planes, VW vans, Alcohol bottles and a whole lot of other crazy stuff out there. Some of those are actually drivable and on the roads, too. Obviously someone wanted to build them and own them. I find them interesting to look at and often pretty zanny, crazy, weird or so forth. As to building or owning one myself with the intent to use it as a daily driver style of hack rig, I have no need. My dog-mobile Ural keeps me happy, as is. One hobby at a time is enough to keep me broke, so I'll likely stick with the stock Ural. 🙂
Interesting you mention such, but I also have a pic or two of quadruple sidecars, too, but I think they are mostly photo shopped ones. 🙂
I got criticized earlier in another thread by some for my view on cutting a door into the side of a TLE sidecar. I was accused of not wanting a "good quality of life". I got a big laugh out of that.
I have to say that I have an excellent quality of life. The reason for this is that I concentrate on things that are useful, worthwhile and, most of all safe.
The simple fact of the matter with regard to a dual, triple, quadruple or even wider sidecar is that it's unsafe, besides being illegal. It would get you stopped by any number of California Highwy Patrol officers on sight.
And please don't think that I have any interest in wanting to stop anyone from doing something like this. I've studied philosophy along the way when I was in the university and this taught me that others have rights, too.
So if you or anyone else wants to spend the time, money and frustration to build something like a multiple sidecar, knock yourself out. That includes your right to talk about it. For myself I retain the right to think poorly of such endeavors, whenever and whereever they may pop up. Lord knows no one has ever held back from criticising my efforts.
gnm109 - 7/29/2011 10:07 AM
Pat Huey - 7/29/2011 6:47 AM
Well, nice to know your own personal reasoning, but that is an opinion that works for you. I never said I wanted one at all, nor would I be interested in building one or even driving it about. To ask "why" someone else would build one is akin to asking for a final answer on the typical oil thread. They do so for their own personal reasons or maybe just a whim or personal challenge idea, regardless of what others may believe is crazy, zanny, a waste of time, a safety issue or so forth. Not everyone in the world has the same tastes or opinons of such things, as you have expressed. To me, I'd not want to personally own one, but I can sure understand why someone else may be interested in such and enjoy it for themselves. I've seen hacks made up as planes, VW vans, Alcohol bottles and a whole lot of other crazy stuff out there. Some of those are actually drivable and on the roads, too. Obviously someone wanted to build them and own them. I find them interesting to look at and often pretty zanny, crazy, weird or so forth. As to building or owning one myself with the intent to use it as a daily driver style of hack rig, I have no need. My dog-mobile Ural keeps me happy, as is. One hobby at a time is enough to keep me broke, so I'll likely stick with the stock Ural. 🙂
Interesting you mention such, but I also have a pic or two of quadruple sidecars, too, but I think they are mostly photo shopped ones. 🙂
I got criticized earlier in another thread by some for my view on cutting a door into the side of a TLE sidecar. I was accused of not wanting a "good quality of life". I got a big laugh out of that.
I have to say that I have an excellent quality of life. The reason for this is that I concentrate on things that are useful, worthwhile and, most of all safe.
The simple fact of the matter with regard to a dual, triple, quadruple or even wider sidecar is that it's unsafe, besides being illegal. It would get you stopped by any number of California Highwy Patrol officers on sight.
And please don't think that I have any interest in wanting to stop anyone from doing something like this. I've studied philosophy along the way when I was in the university and this taught me that others have rights, too.
So if you or anyone else wants to spend the time, money and frustration to build something like a multiple sidecar, knock yourself out. That includes your right to talk about it. For myself I retain the right to think poorly of such endeavors, whenever and whereever they may pop up. Lord knows no one has ever held back from criticising my efforts.
Gaylord you just will not leave it alone. You where never signaled out over the quality of life thing. You took it that way.It was a general statement "NOT INTENDED FOR YOU PERSONALLY". Having said that. If you got such a laugh out of it, then why keep bringing it up.
Lets get down to the nitty gritty of this post. I beleave it was asked if anyone had ever seen a double sidecar with one motorcycle. That's all, just a question. Gaylord couldn't help telling everyone about the folly of such a design. It would be one thing if he had a base line to come from, but he does not. Only his opinion. No one is objecting to someone having an opinion. It's just that Gaylord's opinion has such emphasis, and fever that it's just short of being obnoxious. Look this is very simple. We all enjoy this site along with the love of sidecars. We sure as heck don't need to be ridiculed over such manusha.
A double sidecar could be designed being both safe and roadworthy. I spent about an hour the other night thinking about such a design and the criteria of such a contraption. It would be thinking out side the box as they say, but at the same time would have to be designed inside a prescribed box configuration. I've been designing and developing products for almost fifty years. Some of the designs where at the time new and different. Some where not very practical, and others where designed knowing up front that there was a limited market. Others on the other hand had wide open markets. Some of my medical designs are still being used today after almost thirty years. A double sidecar would have a very limited market. Having said that, what would the steps be to develop such a design? First the design would need to be both practical and safe. Practicality in this case would be subjective. The safety issue at first looked daunting, but once the design parameters where layed out some interesting things came to light. With both the sidecars tucked in close to the bike, and the width of each sidecar reduced. The box dimensions falls within practical allowances for a safe driving vehicle. There is a measurement used in different design disciplines called an Aspect Ratio. You will see this phrase used when talking about airplanes. It has to do with the wings, and the length of the wing verses the cord length, or the width. This is the Aspect ratio. It's sometimes used in hydroplanes, and racing cars along with various other design venues. When I started running the numbers I was pleasantly surprised at the feasibility of such a simple and safe design.
I think it would be interesting to design a double sidecar even if only on paper. It could be fun, and a great mental design exercise.
If any of you would be interested in seeing the steps involved in the designing of such a contraption, or would like to add to the design process let me know. It's evident from the past that many are a little weary about writing in because of some of the criticism that some may get from only a few. You may email me direct if you care to.
About a month ago I wrote something that only a few took the wrong way. I had twenty seven emails from people pleased with what I had to say, but not wanting to post because of fear of reprisal.
Let me know what you think. If there is no interest, then the Double sidecar design process will self dissolve.
Johnny Sweet jsweet450@yahoo.com
