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Looking for advice to put a hack on a 2001 Bonneville
Quote from Brian Snyder on June 5, 2019, 12:47 pmI'm brand new to sidecars, but I got a 2001 Bonneville that needs one. I mostly plan on scenic New England back roads, but would like to be safe for the occasional highway stretch.
I first was looking at the Cozy Rocket for looks, price, and because they make a mount specifically for the Bonneville, so it seems it's meant to be. Doing a little more research is leading me to second guess. Is that a good match? What are the drawbacks? Is it a well made product?
Can anyone tell me about Redwolf in Oklahoma? https://redwolfsidecars.com/shop?olsPage=products
Any other recommendations for a good match or any builders I should steer clear of?
Thanks in advance.
I'm brand new to sidecars, but I got a 2001 Bonneville that needs one. I mostly plan on scenic New England back roads, but would like to be safe for the occasional highway stretch.
I first was looking at the Cozy Rocket for looks, price, and because they make a mount specifically for the Bonneville, so it seems it's meant to be. Doing a little more research is leading me to second guess. Is that a good match? What are the drawbacks? Is it a well made product?
Can anyone tell me about Redwolf in Oklahoma? https://redwolfsidecars.com/shop?olsPage=products
Any other recommendations for a good match or any builders I should steer clear of?
Thanks in advance.
Quote from OldSchool_IsCool on June 5, 2019, 3:05 pmWelcome to the slightly off-center world of sidecars Brian!
The general rule of thumb is that you want to pick a car that is a quarter to a third of the weight of the bike. So if you know the bike's weight, you should be able to calculate the weight range of sidecars that should match well. Beyond that, you'll want to inspect the frame work to make sure it's stout enough to handle the loads. Thin walled pipe is a bad thing to find. You want the frame overbuilt if anything. Less weight in not necessarily a good thing when it comes to sidecars.
Another rule of thumb is that "Universal Sidecar Mounts fit Nothing in the Universe!" If you find a dealer that says their mounts will fit any bike or any sidecar, walk away. Look for someone who has bike-specific mounts that mate to car-specific hardware. Be aware, sidecars are not for the faint of wallet. Hunting down proper mounts will make that clear!
There is a dealer out there that keeps changing their name. Used to go by Safer Wholesale. That's a company to avoid. Stay away form anyone that is willing to sell you a sidecar that doesn't fall inside the calculated weight range too. Stick with a dealer that shows concern for your safety, not just the sale.
Welcome to the slightly off-center world of sidecars Brian!
The general rule of thumb is that you want to pick a car that is a quarter to a third of the weight of the bike. So if you know the bike's weight, you should be able to calculate the weight range of sidecars that should match well. Beyond that, you'll want to inspect the frame work to make sure it's stout enough to handle the loads. Thin walled pipe is a bad thing to find. You want the frame overbuilt if anything. Less weight in not necessarily a good thing when it comes to sidecars.
Another rule of thumb is that "Universal Sidecar Mounts fit Nothing in the Universe!" If you find a dealer that says their mounts will fit any bike or any sidecar, walk away. Look for someone who has bike-specific mounts that mate to car-specific hardware. Be aware, sidecars are not for the faint of wallet. Hunting down proper mounts will make that clear!
There is a dealer out there that keeps changing their name. Used to go by Safer Wholesale. That's a company to avoid. Stay away form anyone that is willing to sell you a sidecar that doesn't fall inside the calculated weight range too. Stick with a dealer that shows concern for your safety, not just the sale.
Quote from Al Olme2 on June 5, 2019, 5:20 pmFirst, Redwolf is a guy who is related in some way to the Cozy manufacturer in India. He doesn't appear to know much about sidecars other than how to import them. He sells "Universal Mounts", enough said.
I wouldn't be shy about Cozy for your bike IF you go through someone like Cycle Sidecar. Kevin Mahoney is a straight shooter and he does sell bike specific mounts for the Bonneville. My only negative about the Cozy is that it's small. If that's not an issue for you, it's a good match for your bike. BTW, I believe at one time Kevin M. was the importer for the Enfield.
One more thing, Cozy makes set ups for scooters and for small motorcycles. Make sure you know which one you're buying if you go that way.
First, Redwolf is a guy who is related in some way to the Cozy manufacturer in India. He doesn't appear to know much about sidecars other than how to import them. He sells "Universal Mounts", enough said.
I wouldn't be shy about Cozy for your bike IF you go through someone like Cycle Sidecar. Kevin Mahoney is a straight shooter and he does sell bike specific mounts for the Bonneville. My only negative about the Cozy is that it's small. If that's not an issue for you, it's a good match for your bike. BTW, I believe at one time Kevin M. was the importer for the Enfield.
One more thing, Cozy makes set ups for scooters and for small motorcycles. Make sure you know which one you're buying if you go that way.
Quote from Jeff_Online on June 6, 2019, 12:09 amI don't know much about the different models, but I've driven a cozy mounted to an Enfield. (Also the only one I've ever ridden in.) It was a very small sidecar, and lifted very easily even with a small person in it. It needed about 200# to behave, IMO.
On a bike heavier than a 500 (or whatever the Enfield is), I can see it being even more squirrelly. Go on the heavy side of the suggestion above, trust me on that one, if you aren't sure go big. You might get a slower rig, but it will be steadier. You probably won't be racing until your second rig anyhow. :p
I don't know much about the different models, but I've driven a cozy mounted to an Enfield. (Also the only one I've ever ridden in.) It was a very small sidecar, and lifted very easily even with a small person in it. It needed about 200# to behave, IMO.
On a bike heavier than a 500 (or whatever the Enfield is), I can see it being even more squirrelly. Go on the heavy side of the suggestion above, trust me on that one, if you aren't sure go big. You might get a slower rig, but it will be steadier. You probably won't be racing until your second rig anyhow. :p
Quote from Brian Snyder on June 6, 2019, 10:58 amThanks for the valuable info! I was looking at Cycle Sidecar, and have seen a couple videos with the Canoe and Rocket attached to a Bonnie, so I think I'm going for it.
Thanks for the valuable info! I was looking at Cycle Sidecar, and have seen a couple videos with the Canoe and Rocket attached to a Bonnie, so I think I'm going for it.
Quote from Jeff_Online on June 7, 2019, 8:34 amMy one piece of hard earned advice: it's not manly to run without ballast. You cannot judge your skill level by the 'default setting' of the sidecar, because there is no default for a tub that isn't manufactured for a specific model of tug. They were never made to match. Don't be embarrassed because you need an extra 100 pounds. It could make you crash, thinking you shouldn't need it. (Lets just say on my redesign after the crash, I'm running with 100 pounds of lead, and call it experience.) It's much more embarrassing, and downright dangerous, to go up an expressway embankment at 70 mph, and everyone who isn't a newbie like I was, realizes you probably need ballast.
Bottom line: Ballast the heck out of that thing if it's at all squirrelly. Take some out as you gain skill, but don't be surprised if you always run with a good amount of ballast. Properly weighted, it shouldn't fly the chair unless you do something fairly extreme. Without ballast, I could lift the chair with a quick handlebar wriggle, and that is absolutely not right, I just didn't understand that, I thought it was normal.
My one piece of hard earned advice: it's not manly to run without ballast. You cannot judge your skill level by the 'default setting' of the sidecar, because there is no default for a tub that isn't manufactured for a specific model of tug. They were never made to match. Don't be embarrassed because you need an extra 100 pounds. It could make you crash, thinking you shouldn't need it. (Lets just say on my redesign after the crash, I'm running with 100 pounds of lead, and call it experience.) It's much more embarrassing, and downright dangerous, to go up an expressway embankment at 70 mph, and everyone who isn't a newbie like I was, realizes you probably need ballast.
Bottom line: Ballast the heck out of that thing if it's at all squirrelly. Take some out as you gain skill, but don't be surprised if you always run with a good amount of ballast. Properly weighted, it shouldn't fly the chair unless you do something fairly extreme. Without ballast, I could lift the chair with a quick handlebar wriggle, and that is absolutely not right, I just didn't understand that, I thought it was normal.
Quote from Redwolfdeathtrap on June 20, 2019, 8:04 pmBrian bud DONT BUY A REDWOLF!! UNLESS YOU ARE A MECHANIC, WELDER, FABRICATOR, ENGINER AND WANT TO DEVOTE AN EXTRA 2000 DOLLARS AND 100 HOURS LABOR DONT BUY A REDWOLF!! If you do PLEASE don’t take off down the road with your child in it!!! It is a death trap. The management will lie like dogs and tell you anything. I know because they did it to me but please beware and don’t put a child in it.
Brian bud DONT BUY A REDWOLF!! UNLESS YOU ARE A MECHANIC, WELDER, FABRICATOR, ENGINER AND WANT TO DEVOTE AN EXTRA 2000 DOLLARS AND 100 HOURS LABOR DONT BUY A REDWOLF!! If you do PLEASE don’t take off down the road with your child in it!!! It is a death trap. The management will lie like dogs and tell you anything. I know because they did it to me but please beware and don’t put a child in it.
Quote from jaydmc on June 20, 2019, 10:49 pmAll of our sidecars will work with your bike, all will come with proper bike specific NOT universal mounts. The least expensive we imported from Russia called the Sputnik. We up grade the wheel and provide proper mounts with it. Most of the other sidecars on our site we build. All come with the proper mounts. We also make new from billet triple tree's for your bike to lower the steering effort with the sidecars.
There are many photo's of bikes like yours we have done in the photo gallery section on our site.
Jay G
DMC sidecarswww.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
All of our sidecars will work with your bike, all will come with proper bike specific NOT universal mounts. The least expensive we imported from Russia called the Sputnik. We up grade the wheel and provide proper mounts with it. Most of the other sidecars on our site we build. All come with the proper mounts. We also make new from billet triple tree's for your bike to lower the steering effort with the sidecars.
There are many photo's of bikes like yours we have done in the photo gallery section on our site.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Quote from Brian Snyder on June 21, 2019, 11:27 amWent with the Cozy Rocket from Cycle Sidecar. It arrived today. Kevin has been great to work with. Will update here as the installation progresses.
Went with the Cozy Rocket from Cycle Sidecar. It arrived today. Kevin has been great to work with. Will update here as the installation progresses.
Quote from Redwolfdeathtrap on June 21, 2019, 1:33 pmKevin has gave me some great advice and was eager to help with an un-bias opinion but what I liked the most and it’s rare in this field is that he didn’t try to sell me something..
Kevin has gave me some great advice and was eager to help with an un-bias opinion but what I liked the most and it’s rare in this field is that he didn’t try to sell me something..
Quote from Brian Snyder on June 28, 2019, 5:41 pmSidecar looks great but Cozy quality control is (as I sorta expected) a little lax. Some bare metal and dimples where holes were drilled after paint, a couple spots that didn't quite get painted all the way.
The axle looks a little dodgy. On one end the nut keeper is a piece of metal that has 4 "wings." Two get crimped over the car bracket, two get crimped over the nut. I'll keep an eye on that and if it starts moving at all drill a hole for a cotter pin. The other end is a castellated nut and pin. The wheel mounts with nylon bushings, so we'll see how they hold up.
Since I have a Bonneville, I bought the Triumph mount kit that Cyclesidecar sells. Kevin said he wasn't quite happy with it and I might have to do some fabrication to get it to work. The truth is that the Triumph kit is two pieces, one that mounts below the oil cooler and one that looks like it might fit on the rear foot peg bracket. Neither of these pieces can take the included Cozy mounting hardware as is, and no other struts or brackets are included, so I'm basically at square one.
Unfortunate because I believed that by buying a Triumph mount kit with the sidecar I would be bolting on and riding in relatively short order. Undaunted because I'm DIY guy and I've always been looking for an excuse to learn how to weld. More updates later, but in months not days.
Sidecar looks great but Cozy quality control is (as I sorta expected) a little lax. Some bare metal and dimples where holes were drilled after paint, a couple spots that didn't quite get painted all the way.
The axle looks a little dodgy. On one end the nut keeper is a piece of metal that has 4 "wings." Two get crimped over the car bracket, two get crimped over the nut. I'll keep an eye on that and if it starts moving at all drill a hole for a cotter pin. The other end is a castellated nut and pin. The wheel mounts with nylon bushings, so we'll see how they hold up.
Since I have a Bonneville, I bought the Triumph mount kit that Cyclesidecar sells. Kevin said he wasn't quite happy with it and I might have to do some fabrication to get it to work. The truth is that the Triumph kit is two pieces, one that mounts below the oil cooler and one that looks like it might fit on the rear foot peg bracket. Neither of these pieces can take the included Cozy mounting hardware as is, and no other struts or brackets are included, so I'm basically at square one.
Unfortunate because I believed that by buying a Triumph mount kit with the sidecar I would be bolting on and riding in relatively short order. Undaunted because I'm DIY guy and I've always been looking for an excuse to learn how to weld. More updates later, but in months not days.
Quote from cycleman on July 10, 2019, 12:47 pmOn most bikes unless they are manufactured to have a sidecar attached to them, work best with some kind of sub frame for the bike, for the lower mounts of the sidecar to attach to. The subframe is normally attached to the bike frame in a couple of places and many will use the motor mount to frames location on the front or bottom of the bike. If the bike has a center stand that is also a good location to incorporate into the sub frame rear mount.
Do some searching on this and other sites for what others have done in attaching sidecars to bikes and it will give you some ideas. Have a good welder do the welding, not knocking your learning curve but your life will depend on how well the rig goes together.
On most bikes unless they are manufactured to have a sidecar attached to them, work best with some kind of sub frame for the bike, for the lower mounts of the sidecar to attach to. The subframe is normally attached to the bike frame in a couple of places and many will use the motor mount to frames location on the front or bottom of the bike. If the bike has a center stand that is also a good location to incorporate into the sub frame rear mount.
Do some searching on this and other sites for what others have done in attaching sidecars to bikes and it will give you some ideas. Have a good welder do the welding, not knocking your learning curve but your life will depend on how well the rig goes together.
Quote from Tax Man on July 10, 2019, 2:12 pmDid you say the sidecar wheel has nylon bushings? Is that in place of ball or roller wheel bearings? If the axle is a standard sized axle I think I'd be looking for a wheel hub that would permit the use of real wheel bearings. Nylon bushings may be okay for use in a some light use applications, but for hours of highway riding you may experience nylon melt-down.
Regarding the DIY welding of a subframe, listen to Cycleman. In another life I used to teach welding, but I have done so little welding in recent decades that I would not trust my life or that of my passenger to the kind of welds I'd make now. Take steel of about the same thickness as what you'd use in making the subframe, place two pieces of that material together end-to-end and butt weld them together, place the welded piece in a vice to hold it securely with the welded joint exposed just above the jaws of the vice, then take a heavy hammer and try to break the weld by striking the side of the steel above the weld. If the weld fails before the upper or lower part of the joined piece bends significantly you are not ready to weld your own subframe.
Did you say the sidecar wheel has nylon bushings? Is that in place of ball or roller wheel bearings? If the axle is a standard sized axle I think I'd be looking for a wheel hub that would permit the use of real wheel bearings. Nylon bushings may be okay for use in a some light use applications, but for hours of highway riding you may experience nylon melt-down.
Regarding the DIY welding of a subframe, listen to Cycleman. In another life I used to teach welding, but I have done so little welding in recent decades that I would not trust my life or that of my passenger to the kind of welds I'd make now. Take steel of about the same thickness as what you'd use in making the subframe, place two pieces of that material together end-to-end and butt weld them together, place the welded piece in a vice to hold it securely with the welded joint exposed just above the jaws of the vice, then take a heavy hammer and try to break the weld by striking the side of the steel above the weld. If the weld fails before the upper or lower part of the joined piece bends significantly you are not ready to weld your own subframe.