It has been suggested to me that with the Harley sidecar the trail on my 1990 FLHTC should not be changed from stock. This rig was purchased together new from the dealer.
Reason being that since the sidecar has no suspension, when it hits rough road and starts to move up and down, it will cause the frame of the bike to lean as in a solo condition, possible causing a serious loss of control.
Do any of you have experience with this?
Changing the trail would make the bike steer much nicer. Harley use to offer "adjustable" triple tree's years ago, I suspect that the reason they do not offer tree's with thier sidecars is due to total indiference to sidecars from the corporation otherwise they most likley would have also added suspension years ago.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
the ONLY reason not to change the trees to reduce the trail on a sidecar rig is the desire to operate it as a solo bike part of the year.
however most folks that try going that route give up real fast as its just too much work to remove and reinstall.
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The Authorized Harley dealers will never knowingly recommend a non Harley modification. It's a liability issue. Raked trees were not a part of the Harley inventory until they started selling trikes. Now they have them with a Motor Company part number so it's OK to use them now. The Harley trees have less rake angle than most after market trees so they still use a damper with them. With 5 degrees or more rake the damper is not needed.
L.
I just installed a set of 5 degree trees on my wives 01 FLHR, best mod yet for handling and not going to ride it as a two wheeler again.
Hack'n - 1/30/2012 9:26 PM
The Authorized Harley dealers will never knowingly recommend a non Harley modification. It's a liability issue. Raked trees were not a part of the Harley inventory until they started selling trikes. Now they have them with a Motor Company part number so it's OK to use them now. The Harley trees have less rake angle than most after market trees so they still use a damper with them. With 5 degrees or more rake the damper is not needed.
L.
This was suggested to me by an aftermarket dealer. Not a Harley Dealer.
Here is where I'm confused though...If the idea is to lessen the amount of trail, by pulling the front axle back closer to the bike, how does that shorten the fork tubes requiring the spacers? Would that not raise the top end of the tubes?
Signed: Puzzled nubee 🙂
I'm no expert on this. As I'm the OP on this issue, but what I've learned is that trail is a area in front of your front wheel, and when you rake out your trees you reduce that trail but also lower the front end of your bike thus the need for spacers. All I can say is man it works!
has anyone tried the adjustable trees? For instance ,,vtwin sells vt24-0797 for around $450 that allows my shovelhead to be adjustable. I don't know how hard it is too adjust, or any other details yet.
first to reduce trail - you increase rake
second - the adjustable hd trees fit everything before 84 - and will fit at least some softails to present. the hd adjustable trees had two positions, one for solo and one for sidecar so that the sidecar could be attached and removed and it would be correct trail for both. they stopped making them in 84 when they changed the frame. the very high steering effort that comes along with no raked trees is likely one of the reasons sidecar sales dropped rapidly after 84. without a raked tree the alignment has to be spot on perfect to drive straight - but turning is always a lot of effort.
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To reduce trail, the front wheel needs to move foward. THIS IS NOT "RAKE" rake can only be done at the steering head. Changing the "rake" at the steering head would have some but very little effect on trail. When we are changing triple tree's we often use what many people will call "raked" tree's. This is a poor use of terminalogy. The tree's for sidecar (or trike) uses change the angle of the forks in relation to the stem which causes the front wheel to move forward. As the wheel moves forward the front of the bike drops which is the reason for fork spacers to bring the front back up to stock.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
jay@dmcsidecars.com
Harley might have stop making them,,but other manufactures still are producing them. Anyone familier with them? The pics don't show much. I need to see if they are easy to change on a dresser with fairings and ect in the way. I also need to figure out how much they change the trail, as opposed to the "5 degree" trees out there.
the terminology is in fact all fubar as a few posters have rightly pointed out - but what you want is a 5 or 6 degree tree - thats the ADDED angle to the tree.
to install you need to COMPLETELY dismantle the front end of the bike.
on a hd bagger you can suspend the inner fairing from bungies from the rafters and save a lot of wring issues, but other than that every single bolt will be removed from the front end to change the tree. if its a road king you can probably set the bars and controls on the tank - but there is a big risk of scuffing.
the part of the equation that causes all the frustration with the hd touring bikes is that the tree is backwards. ie the tubes are BEHIND the fork neck. the actual rake of a big twin is really upright - essentially its actually like a sport bike angle - i think in the 20's but i cant remember what it is. to make it look right they use a backwards tree so the fork tubes are at a significantly steeper rake than the actual rake - its to create a optical illusion.
so after all the semantics are over - the actual rake of the bearing head is in the 20's, the angle of the tubes is in the 30's and the trail is near 6". what you want is trail something like 2" or possibly less. so you install trees that make the fork tubes angle even more severely forward to move the front axle forward a few inches.
to install you need to COMPLETELY dismantle the front end of the bike.
I know all that, it's obvious. I have had a couple Harleys down to the frame. I am talking about changing the tree from sidecar position to solo position on a dressed out bike with the aftermarket adjustable trees.
you can only put adjustable trees on a flh older than 84 or some softails with non hd sidecars.
there are no adjustable trees for 84 to present flh bikes.
to change from sidecar to solo - you take the entire front end apart - each way
if you DO have adjustable trees - it takes about 5 mins altogether to change the tree from solo to sidecar, remove a bolt, swing the fork and install the bolt - and then about 15min to take the wedge out of the headlight
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I guess what is confusing me is this diagram from Hal Kendall's "THE SIDECAR OPERATOR MANUAL 2003."
Does this not suggest lessening the trail from solo to sidecar? Bear with me I've not attached an image on this forum before.
