HeidiandHans - 6/19/2010 8:10 PM
Thanks RedMenace,,,,,,,,I always do all my own work,,,,,what happened was,,,I talked to this guy about the sidecar because I just wanted to get a used one to carry my german shepherds and he gets used ones from time to time,,,,he didn't have any and I decided to go for the new one,,,,he said $3200 installed,,,,,I called valorex and they said best they could do was $3200 delivered and I'd install.....Well it was $3200 installed but add the tax,,,he cut me a small break and total was $3400....but any way he took me in at 8am this morning and I told him to set it up like it was his own,,,,as I was waiting for my ride home he was setting up the lines and layed down some straight bars with a measuring tape in fromt and in back,,,,I took a peak and it was 55 in in front and the same in back,,,,,there was no toe in at all,,,,,and like I said it was also leaning in,,,,,,,,,,to make a long story short (I guess to late for that) I tested it out and on level ground it does lean out now,,and there probably is some toe in now,,(still have to measure),,,wobble not as bad and just a very slight right turn on straight roads,,,,most roads here in Pittsburgh Pa do grade down to the right side for rain run off,,,but I told him everything was good and bought him a case of miller draft,, Now everything will be on me and I'll be checking everything my self like I should of done in the first place,,,,Glad I found this site when I did a sidecar forum search,,,,and your reply is exactly what I needed,,,,,I just retired from the post office and at 58 years old I have a lot of fun to catch up on (with my dogs) plan on taking one down to daytona for the october feast,,,,,I'm headed to camp up in the mountains,,about a 75 mile ride,,,,I have all the family up for fathers day, I figure if it keeps this slight right turn more than 75% of the time,,,then I'll do what ever it takes to make it track straight,,,,,,I noticed that every time I'd look over at my dog I'd go off to the right,,,,just a little now,,,and also right turns take a lot less effort than left turns. I'll be back from camp on thursday and then I'll be checking everything,,,,probably be reposting on friday or saturday,,,,,Thanks for all your help and I'm sure I'll be needing more if everything checks out good and the measurements are correct...
...Thanks,,,,Pat,,,,(the Shepherd)P.S. I didn't think his initial set up made sense either,,,,,wheel does come up easier in right turns now,,,,,but it's like learning twice and only created other problems,,,,,,
i know it's off topic but i just gotta know, what type GSD's do you have? i am a GSD junkie and have a DDR import. thanks and sorry for the interuption.
HeidiandHans - 6/17/2010 10:25 PM
Hi there, I just bought a valorex sidecar and had it mounted to my 1976 KZ900 by the dealer who has a lot of years riding with sidecars,,,,.....The steering is like trying to turn a car with a stalled engine,,,,also a low speed shimmy which he tells me is common and not so bad on my bike,,,but don't dare take any hand off the handle bars (went to shut off the choke while going about 15mph and had to grab back on because the front end started to shimmy something terrible) ,,,,,also he set it up with no lean out because I'm a first time rider,,,it seems to lean in a slight amount if you ask me,,,,I;ll have to measure,,, have other questions but I'll deal with one issue at a time,,,I'm completly new to sidecars, and the dealer talked me into having him install...????? is a low speed shimmy common and are they that hard to steer (I have Z bars and he says they don't help any),,,,,,been riding bikes for about 40 years now,,,but first time with a sidecar....Thanks for help,,,pat
I have a 1981 KZ1000 CSR w/ 700 Velorex side car. It should be very similar to your bike. I would be very interested to learn of anything you may do to improve the steering.
Thanks,
Robert
Pat,
We are in central Pa. about 50 miles north of Harrisburg. I would be happy to look over your setup if you wish if you bring it here.
The bike really should lean out when you are on it and you should have some toe in. Wheel lead if excessive can cause harder steering in right handers but most rigs tend to steer harder when turning left (away from sidecar). Mounts need to be rigid so that there is no flex at speed or when various road conditions present themselves.
Setup is tougher to get decent and/ or maintan any semblance of consitancy under various conditions if you have soft suspenion(bike and/or sidecar) and/ or a light sidecar on a heavy bike. Everything is a compromise on a street outfit.
You have a lighter sidecar with a soft suspension (if it is an older velorex) on a fairly heavy and pretty powerfull bike. I can sorta see why the installer leaned the bike in and not out but it is not the answer at all. He may have helped stability in right handers but that thinking with a rig like yours will create a lot of instability in left handers unless ton of wheel lead is put in to it. Excessive lead makes for hard steering. (Think of an automoblile with two front tires and only one steers while the other is fixed in a straight ahead position and you'll get he idea).
Without modifying what you have I think the ansswer is a wider stance. About 10" of lead and some bolt on ballast on the right rear of the sidecar frame. It will still not be optimal, handling wise, but can be made to be drivable and safe if done with some care. The Velorex mounts may be an issue and may need to be modifiued some to get this within a workable realm. The frame clamp on the sidecar frame can be an issue as they , many tines, tend to slip. Many weld them in place, we usually replace the darn things with something different.
I am new getting use to sidecars again myself, so take this into account for what I am suggesting. You mention in your original post that your bike has "Z" type handlebars. Reminds me back in the 70's when I had been running sidecars for a few years. My first sidecar was a Ural mounted to a Moto Guzzi 850 Eldorado. The Eldorado has nice wide handlebars and the Guzzi/Ural handled great. I then had a great ideal of switching to narrow "Z" handlebars. I didn't get 100 feet before deciding this was a really dumb ideal, shimmied really bad. I immediately switched back to the stock bars. Those Z bars might be part of your problem.
HeidiandHans - 6/23/2010 4:24 PM
i know it's off topic but i just gotta know, what type GSD's do you have? i am a GSD junkie and have a DDR import. thanks and sorry for the interuption.
Hi there,,,,just got back from camp ,,,,,,,,lost my 2 German Shepherds last year,,,,one was 13 (my Heidi),,,she had DM degenerative melopathy...only German Shepherds can get it,,,,I nursed her to the end,,,,she died in my hands and is sitting in front of me (creamated) and waiting for me to die,,,,to be burried with me.....Han's was as healthy as a horse and had a full check-up just shortly befor he died,,,,3 month's after my heidi,,,,they said he died of a broken heart,,,,which also broke mine and my wife's,,,,he's also sitting here and is going with my wife,,,,,it's really hard to go on with out them,,,,I was suposed to get a sidecar and take them to daytona with me,,,,never happened,,,, they were sibs from West German and Chek imports,,,,I'll post some pic's when I figure out how on this site,,,,,,,,My life revolved around those dogs and when I lost them I became lost,,,,Wife said no more,,,,she said she could not go through it again,,,,,I just kept looking at othere pups and could not find any,,,,realized I was trying to replace them and that was just not posible,,,,,,One day I talked to a guy who said he had 3 pup's left and they were from two imports he purchased and to come take a look,,,,,,,I was not expecting to find what i wanted but i went anyway,,,,As I was driving up his drive way,,,,,,this oversized 120 lb black and red German Shepherd male came running up to my truck,,,,I said to myself go ahead and open the door,,,,when I did he jumped up and put his front paws on my lap,,,,,I knew I had my dog's then and there,,,,with out even seeing the pup's,,,,,,I seen the mother next and she too was oversized at 90 lbs but just simple stunning,,,,,,,Both the Sire and Bitch were East German lines with titles of World Seiger Shows,,,,alll Shutshound III"s SV,,,,,you name it and it was in there background,,,,,even hips certified,,,,I now have Sigmund (black and red standerd coat) and his sister Sabrina who I also call Kayla,,,,, (black and red Long coat) I never thought I'd have a long coat but Sabrina )kayla) is just simply beautiful....These dogs do everything I ask of them,,,,It's almost like they were sent to me,,,,They are not a replacement for my Heidi and Han's,,,,,but they are my new pup's (10 months old now) And I feel like I got my life back.........Thanks pat
i will send ya a pm to continue the discussion about GSD's, these folks don't want to hear about dogs on a m/c forum. thanks for the reply, look at my avatar.
Amen!
Let's get back to steering problems.
Lonnie
Read all the replies with great interest. 2yrs ago I matched up a vespa tub, homemade frame, and a honda magna (85) 1100.
I adjusted every thing suggested and it still shook like a dog passin bones. Hackn suggested a dampner (shock absorber).
It is connected from the rt front fork at the axle to an adjustable clamp on the sidecar frame. about 30deg. angle. There is
a 13 " stroke that doesn't restrict steering. Long story short it works great. no more death grip. Thanks Hackn
You're welcome Bob,
If you can get it mounted at a 90 degree angle (perpendicular) from the forks you will also eliminate any tendency for "bump steering" that may be present.
That V65 is a powerhouse isn't it?
Lonnie
I managed to check out my bike today,,,,,,, forks,,,,front wheel,,,,,back wheel,,,,swing arm,,,,,chain alignment,,,,neck bearings and tightness,,,,,everything is good,,,,was going to start measurements tomorrow and just found out Johnston PA thunder in the valley rally is this weekend,,,,so I'm off to that in the morning,,,,be back sunday night and will check and post measurements monday,,,,at least I know the bike itself is good,,,,except for the handlebars,,,,,I really like them and I'd like to keep them on if at all posible....thanks pat
