One more thing to be warned about. Remember to take it out of reverse after you have backed up to the curb. I forgot to do that once and when I got on the rig to leave I looked down and saw the green nutural light and pushed the starter button with the clutch out. The rig jumped on the sidewalk scaring the crap out of some pedestrians!
I have both a 2002 RK with a 5 speed and a 2007 Dyna with the 6 speed. The 6 speed is great, the bikes have neeeded a 6 speed for some time (since they had enough power to cruise over 70). Talking with Baker, they make a real reverse gear for the 6 speed, actually goes in the gearbox, versus the kit from Champion. I beleive it will used on lehman Trikes, although not positive of this.See http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2007/11/18/baker-drivetrain-goes-in-reverse/Wo n't work at all with the older 5 speeds however.
The link didn't work for me. But this might:
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2007/11/18/baker-drivetrain-goes-in-reverse/
This was published last Fall, and mentions an agreement between Lehman and Baker. But I find it interesting that it is only designed to modify transmissions on Dynas and Softtails, but not the Touring line. If a Baker reverse was available, operated by the existing foot control, that would have been something to look at.
Originally written by gregbenner on 2/13/2008 5:22 PM
...the bikes have neeeded a 6 speed for some time (since they had enough power to cruise over 70)........ .
That's a good one! LOL. FYI Harleys have had enough power to cruise over 70 since 1929. Methinks you are all proud of your 96" six speeder.
Originally written by gnm109 on 2/14/2008 8:29 AM
Originally written by gregbenner on 2/13/2008 5:22 PM ...the bikes have neeeded a 6 speed for some time (since they had enough power to cruise over 70)........ .
That's a good one! LOL. FYI Harleys have had enough power to cruise over 70 since 1929. Methinks you are all proud of your 96" six speeder.
You missed the point, or more likely, I communicated poorly. The issue isn't power, its RPMs. I know very few Harley riders, who tour, who haven't found themselves once in a while trying to shift into a nonexitent 6th gear. If you spend anytime on the VTwin forums, you see these comments all the time. Its why the aftermarket started making 6 speeds conversions. Its also why the Motorcompany finally upgraded. Some riders have commented that a stock 88 doesn't have the power to pull a 6th gear. I think stock 88s only have 60 hp or something. I'm not sure on this since my RK has a 95" motor. However, when you do have the power, it is really nice to have a 6th gear for open road riding. There's a reason nearly every other motocycle in the world went to 6 speeds.Its not an issue at all if you cruise at slower speeds,particularly if you don't ride on interstates. I was merely respmding to a comment that Harley's didn't need a 6 speed. They don't "need" more that 60 hp, ABS, FI, good brakes, sidestand ignition lockout, and other modern stuff. Its nice though.
Originally written by skaeser on 2/14/2008 2:55 AM
The link didn't work for me. But this might: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2007/11/18/baker-drivetrain-goes-in-reverse/This was published last Fall, and mentions an agreement between Lehman and Baker. But I find it interesting that it is only designed to modify transmissions on Dynas and Softtails, but not the Touring line. If a Baker reverse was available, operated by the existing foot control, that would have been something to look at.
My refernce to the link was illustrative only. The reverse IS available for all Harley 6speeds, incluing all the touring models. Also, it IS foot operated. After you shift down to 1st, you push a button (mounted on the handlebars, fairing, or wherever).then shift down one more time, into reverse. When you upshift back to 1st, the lockout reengages so you cannot accidentally shift into reverse. Cost is about the same as the old Champion reverse kit, although labor to install may be higher(?)
Originally written by gregbenner on 2/14/2008 9:03 AM
Originally written by gnm109 on 2/14/2008 8:29 AM
Originally written by gregbenner on 2/13/2008 5:22 PM ...the bikes have neeeded a 6 speed for some time (since they had enough power to cruise over 70)........ .
That's a good one! LOL. FYI Harleys have had enough power to cruise over 70 since 1929. Methinks you are all proud of your 96" six speeder.
You missed the point, or more likely, I communicated poorly. The issue isn't power, its RPMs. I know very few Harley riders, who tour, who haven't found themselves once in a while trying to shift into a nonexitent 6th gear. If you spend anytime on the VTwin forums, you see these comments all the time. Its why the aftermarket started making 6 speeds conversions. Its also why the Motorcompany finally upgraded. Some riders have commented that a stock 88 doesn't have the power to pull a 6th gear. I think stock 88s only have 60 hp or something. I'm not sure on this since my RK has a 95" motor. However, when you do have the power, it is really nice to have a 6th gear for open road riding. There's a reason nearly every other motocycle in the world went to 6 speeds.Its not an issue at all if you cruise at slower speeds,particularly if you don't ride on interstates. I was merely respmding to a comment that Harley's didn't need a 6 speed. They don't "need" more that 60 hp, ABS, FI, good brakes, sidestand ignition lockout, and other modern stuff. Its nice though.
Well, regardless of the power you may have (65?...70?...75?....80? pick a number) your sixth gear won't be used very often with a sidecar. The 2.94:1 gearing is simply too high for a Harley motor pulling a 250 pound sidecar with two up. The fifth gear on the HD six speed is a spur gear as well and they are rather noisy. Yes, I've ridden one extensively.
My five speed bike wih 3.37:1 is running 3,000 rpm at 70 mph and it's very nice. No problem on the interstates at all.
And, if you modify your motor to even 100 hp, your low speed torque will go away. There's no free lunch. 'Nuff said.
It's fun bantering with you, though. LOL
Originally written by gregbenner on 2/14/2008 12:27 PM
Originally written by skaeser on 2/14/2008 2:55 AM
The link didn't work for me. But this might: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2007/11/18/baker-drivetrain-goes-in-reverse/This was published last Fall, and mentions an agreement between Lehman and Baker. But I find it interesting that it is only designed to modify transmissions on Dynas and Softtails, but not the Touring line. If a Baker reverse was available, operated by the existing foot control, that would have been something to look at.
My refernce to the link was illustrative only. The reverse IS available for all Harley 6speeds, incluing all the touring models. Also, it IS foot operated. After you shift down to 1st, you push a button (mounted on the handlebars, fairing, or wherever).then shift down one more time, into reverse. When you upshift back to 1st, the lockout reengages so you cannot accidentally shift into reverse. Cost is about the same as the old Champion reverse kit, although labor to install may be higher(?)
I noted on the web page that it claims to only work with the Dyna and Softtail Models, but perhaps only the Touring Models were omitted in the write up.
My response was supportive of your statement and felt that a single control would be better than the dual controls created by the Champion system.
I will say that the Champion system is just about the only reverse system mentioned on most sidecar and trike web sites. The Lehman was not mentioned on anything I ran across in six to eight weeks of looking while I was laid up at home. The only other reverse mentioned by some was an older electric reverse system sold with some Trike conversions that was (again) completely seperate from the existing transmission and rquired that you be in neautral. Honda does offer a reverse in their current Gold Wings, I believe, but I was really looking at the Harley side of things.
I was somewhat surprised to see the number of people posting comments, found in a Google search, about a reverse gear on two wheel bikes. I guess a large bike can be troublesome in some parking situations and there are people who just don't want to worry about it. I'd never really thought of a reverse for a standard two wheel configuration.
Steve
I agree its confusing. i actually called because i would like to add a reverse to my RoadKing if i get a sidecar for it. Due to a number of negative comments on the champion unit, i was hoping the Naker unit would work on a 5 speed. It wont!.Due to the not insignificant cost, i think most people just dont feel reverse is necesaary (unless handicapped in some way, of course). I am not handicapped (physically anyway) but i just think the reverse is cool, and loved it on my Ural. My GoldWing has an electric reverse, and when I need it, i really like it. Wish it was gear drivin though, since it is pretty slow. The Wing probably makes a better tug in nearly any objective way, but I love Harley's, and think the RoadKings are one of the best looking bikes ever made.
Originally written by skaeser on 2/14/2008 1:29 PM
Originally written by gregbenner on 2/14/2008 12:27 PM
Originally written by skaeser on 2/14/2008 2:55 AM
The link didn't work for me. But this might: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2007/11/18/baker-drivetrain-goes-in-reverse/This was published last Fall, and mentions an agreement between Lehman and Baker. But I find it interesting that it is only designed to modify transmissions on Dynas and Softtails, but not the Touring line. If a Baker reverse was available, operated by the existing foot control, that would have been something to look at.
My refernce to the link was illustrative only. The reverse IS available for all Harley 6speeds, incluing all the touring models. Also, it IS foot operated. After you shift down to 1st, you push a button (mounted on the handlebars, fairing, or wherever).then shift down one more time, into reverse. When you upshift back to 1st, the lockout reengages so you cannot accidentally shift into reverse. Cost is about the same as the old Champion reverse kit, although labor to install may be higher(?)
I noted on the web page that it claims to only work with the Dyna and Softtail Models, but perhaps only the Touring Models were omitted in the write up. My response was supportive of your statement and felt that a single control would be better than the dual controls created by the Champion system.I will say that the Champion system is just about the only reverse system mentioned on most sidecar and trike web sites. The Lehman was not mentioned on anything I ran across in six to eight weeks of looking while I was laid up at home. The only other reverse mentioned by some was an older electric reverse system sold with some Trike conversions that was (again) completely seperate from the existing transmission and rquired that you be in neautral. Honda does offer a reverse in their current Gold Wings, I believe, but I was really looking at the Harley side of things.I was somewhat surprised to see the number of people posting comments, found in a Google search, about a reverse gear on two wheel bikes. I guess a large bike can be troublesome in some parking situations and there are people who just don't want to worry about it. I'd never really thought of a reverse for a standard two wheel configuration.Steve
Originally written by timo482 on 2/13/2008 12:58 PM.....The fact is that Harleys don't need six-speed transmssions but that's what everyone wants now.......
I've said all along the only good thing about a 6-speed is being able to say you have one.
I went out the expense of putting an Ultima 6-speed in my Ultra (prior to getting my sidehack) and hardly ever used it. For sure I don't use it when the hack is on, hardly get out of 4th. Am seriously considering pulling it out and putting the 5-speed back in. SERIOUSLY!!!
I think the 6-speed thing with Harley was to get better EPA numbers.
o~o
what ive wanted on my last bike and this one is a deeper first gear
running a 15" rear tire gives some reduction - but still a deeper first is the goal
if you have a six and never use over 5 th then a smaller engine sprocket would go a long way
for my 96" - so far - there is no deep first available
to
Timo, that would be a great idea. Surely they will be available in the near future. Without a sidecar, I really like 6th gear on the Dyna, but on the interstate in LA area, i regularly run 80 - 85. With a side car, I couldn't agree more, no way it would pull it. For me, a perfect solution would be to change the sprockets to gear it down as much as possible, and add a reverse as well. Only problem now is that transmission is in the wrong bike! Darn. Maybe I will just add a sidecar to my "45".flathead. It only has a 3 speed......but reverse is available. http://www.sidecar.com/megabbs/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=347¤tpos=1
Originally written by timo482 on 2/15/2008 11:48 AM
what ive wanted on my last bike and this one is a deeper first gearrunning a 15" rear tire gives some reduction - but still a deeper first is the goalif you have a six and never use over 5 th then a smaller engine sprocket would go a long wayfor my 96" - so far - there is no deep first availableto
Sorry, forgot how to upoad a picture.
Greg Benner wrote:
>>>snip.... My GoldWing has an electric reverse, and when I need it, i really like it. Wish it was gear drivin though, since it is pretty slow.,,,snip<<
This is a sidenote but may be worth thinking about. If rig has stock steering geometry run it up an incline or a hill in a safe place and then try coasting back down the hill backwards. What you will be experiencing is negative trail. There will be no self centering effect. In fact th enatural rtendancy will be for the bars to go either left or right.If the trail has bene reduced in any way the effect will be different. Stock steering being the worst case.
I only mention this to say that you may not want to go too fast in reverse no matter what the system is capable of 🙂
FACTORY REVERSE? I think the only stock bikes with reverse now are the Goldwing and the BMW K1200LT.Both go pretty slow but the system is effective.
Claude, I keep thinking of the factory reverse on the Ural. As you know, it is gear driven, which I really liked. Oh well, maybe that new Chinese rig will pan out.
