Greetings to all from the Coast of Central California.
After looking around for a trials/crosscountry sidecar for a year or so I finally contacted
a few of the dealers on this site who set me on the path towards acquiring a rig.
I picked up a ratty 560 Velorex at the Paso Robles Sidecar Meet and am proceeding to fit it up
to my 1960 Greeves Scottish. I don't expect to run down Hwy 101 but plan on having a nice 40 to 50 mph cruiser/commuter
for the two lanes and Forest Service roads.
I have several bikes I may eventually fit the car to but this will be the first recipient, with a 1966 Victor Enduro, a 1970 Lightning,
and maybe even the 1972 Husqvarna 450 later on.... we'll see where this all leads.
Anyway I've made some 1/4" steel plates to fit the Greeves frame and as I await the eyebolts, hiemjoint clevis and 30mm ball stud to arrive
I thought I'd post a photo and see what some of you think of my mounting scenario..... look for the four pink dots.
Don Bachtel
Nipomo, California
Hi Don,
I'm also new to sidecars but I've been fortunate to receive some great help both in person and from readers of this forum.
I also have a Velorex 560 and live in CA.
From looking at your photo and the pink dots I wonder about the mounting point for the upper rear strut. I've been told to create angles for strength and for that reason my upper rear is now attached to my bike behind the rear shock on the frame.
I'm sure others will offer suggestions as well.
Good luck,
Howard Gilbert
Napa, CA
'74 Moto Guzzi Eldorado & '72 Velorex 560 s/c
Don!
Good to see you here---small world, huh? You got a chair--that's wonderful, especially down there where you are. How's the B44 running? Gemini--my cafe BSA--seems to be doing quite well...
Welcome! You'll find the guys here every bit as nice and helpful as the guys over at Britbike!
All the best!
Does the lower front plate have lateral bracing?
Looks like it may need it.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Howard, I've looked at your album a few times, nice Guzzi.
Not sure about locating the upper rear behind the shock mount, thought the placement on the
1/4" boomerang would be the most rigid. We'll see..
Barb, glad to find you here also and would like see a photo of the Yamaha. Sounds great.The VE is coming along but is still a few dollars and many hours off.
Lifes little detours and too many non motorcycle "projects" have prevented me from getting much done lately...
I knew those Van Tech forks would come in handy, the Victor will be a better tug for sure but we'll give the Scottish the first fitment.
Lonnie thanks for the advice early on, you were the first "pro" I contacted. I'm not sure how to beef up the front lower. Its 1/4" plate like the rear sistered up against the engine plates that sandwich the Greeves "I" Beam. I suppose could weld another 1/4" on the rear of it where it "flags " out to the front. Not a whole lot to work with there without bumping into the leading (trailing?) link. Any ideas would be appreciated.
The wheelbase on the Scottish is just over 50" and it weighs in at about 220lbs. I've set the 560 lower mounts up perpendicular to the bike and chassis at 26". The rise on the uppers will be 12" at the rear and 17" at the front attaching to the hole in the Greeves factory casting adjacent to the steering head.
Hello Don,
I don't where you live. I have a 2001 Jawa 350ccm and live in Costa Rica where we have very steep hills. After now 2 full engine overhauls (first at 4442km) in only 16.000km I definetely can not recommend a small 2 stroker as a rig's working horse. Less an old beautiful British lady as yours.
I'd not even doubt for a 4 stroker like the Norton Commander I once had (as long as I'd get different gears for first and second shift).
In my eyes it would be a pity to damage your nice bike.
By the way I strongly doubt about the strength of your frame and mounting plates, that it would last the sidecar's forces. My first rig was an MZ ETZ20 with the original "Superelastic" sidecar. I went a lot into the greens in flat northern Germany. It's name in stead of Jolly Roger 1 would have better been "Superplastic" or "Superplastilina", because every few thousand km I had to bend back the fist, the sidecar and back swings as well as the front fork. The forces you put on a bikes frame with a sidecar are way harder then the worst trial ride in the outback you do normally.
The Velorex has way better materials then the MZ sidecar, but isn't your bike too neat for to damage it?
Best regards
Sven Peter
I think I would put a reinforcing bar/angle on the lower section of the plate by the swing arm, all the drag on the car is going to be transmitted to that area and if it mounted by the swing arm pivot you have fulcrum point and a very large moment arm that needs to be made very stiff.
I believe I've resolved a few issues with my mounts...
Thanks for the suggestions.
For the front I've boxed the engine plates/I beam with a plate
on both sides with a 1" schedule 80 pipe welded in between.
The stud for the 30mm ball will run thru it.
That should take care of the lateral flex problem Lonnie pointed out.
For the rear I'm working out some sort of "strongback" to prevent any
flexing that may occur on the free end of the boomerang.
Things are tight with the swingarm and brake rod quite close so the design
is still in its prototype stage.
Full shop at work with plasma cutter and long lunches.....
Peter I took a look at some of the roads on your album.
I have nothing close to that around here that I need to travel .
I have no intentions of abusing the Greeves, all I have in mind is an easy cruise down to the store,
the beach or a 9 mile commute thru the strawberry fields to work.
The heavy flywheel and WR gearbox should be a plus for the sidecar.
I'll keep a close eye on the frame and mounts, any hint of damage will be dealt with
most likely with removal of the car and an install on another bike.
Don't even get me going on plugging that T100 motor on my workbench into the chassis,
I dont wan't a Grumph (Greeves/Triumph hybrid) that bad!
Looks like you need a Honda XR 600 to travel around Costa Rica!
Think I would be riding my 450 Husqvarna on those mountain roads..
I'll post some photos of the final mock up.
Don in Nipomo
Well Don,
then may I suggest that you beef up your mounts preety of a bit. From the back compasses shaped plate I would strap up to the main beam under the tank to protect the fork frame that goes to the shocks.
And possibly you will see soon that your front break will ask for a full size drum.
Anyway just treat her well.
Good luck and enjoy your time tinkering and driving.
Sven Peter
Progress made on Velorex/Greeves project. Check out my album.
D.Bachtel
For thoes that want to look with out jumping around:
http://www.sidecar.com/megabbs/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=371
Thanks for the help Shadow!
Hello Don:
did you run your Victoria "reverse" engineered rig yet on the gravel?
You have a lot of botomn freedom. For sure the forest will be perfect to learn.
It seems like you have a young grandson monkey already in mind.
With all that cut out and the front handle bar you for sure just have to grap the monkey when he jumps too much.
Don't forget the balast... a beer keg or case has one disadvantage... you'll get the foam into the face... And the bootle is empty too soon. (just when I once opened at 99.999,9km the champain bottle)
Enjoy the next step: learning to push the hack and the soar shoulders in the beginning.
Regards
Sven Peter
Hi just a word of caution i ran one of these in the sixties & the frame at the rear where it joins the swinging arm is a weak point i was running mine solo & broke the frame twice doing off road stuff, but good luck. Hank
Hank, the Greeves frame is a bit odd in that area with the rear section, lower plates and swingarm all sharing a common thru spindle.
How in the world did you manage to break it?
Just how high was that drop off you flew off?
Peter... I'm still looking for mounting hardware for the Tub to the Chassis.
Need some oddball length M14X1.5 bolts to finish up the newly engineered mounting points based roughly upon the original Jawa setup.
So no test rides yet!
Don in Nipomo
