I reset the toe in on the Guzzi/Velorex 565 rig this afternoon, took it for a blast to get an inspection sticker...
Still pulls to the right... a lot. Under acceleration which is to be expected I know but jeez... I found myself begging for a right hand turn in the road or a chance to let off the throttle.. even then the rig seems to drift right vs left.
The rig had been twitchy on many roads leading me to think that the alignment was way off, it was...
The wind we are experiencing now isn't helping either....
What is a realistic toe in for such a rig...? I have it set at just about 3/4"... I will go out right now to re-check.
Also when setting the lean out of the motorcycle should the rear lean out equal to the front...? I know this is a silly question but I have seen no reference of this measurement in any tech manuals...
I used the front brake rotor to measure the lean out...
Thanks much,
Rob
Originally written by RadGuzziHack on 6/16/2006 3:44 PM
Also when setting the lean out of the motorcycle should the rear lean out equal to the front
Yes, unless the frame isn't straight. But, of course the front turns, so it describes an arc across the lean angle. Just make sure the front wheel is in alignment with the rear when you use it to measure lean out.
Rob- Is that a California that you're using as a tug?
Lean the thing out until it goes straight and does not pull and check the toe in again after leaning it out. Also be careful on right handerrs because if the lean out is more than you had been used to it will feel tipsey. Don't be afraid to add ballast if you feel it is needed.
Note that if your lower mounts are not close to the same height off the ground or are differnet distances away from the centerline of the bike the toe in will change when you adjust lean out. This will make a person crazy if they don't know it.
Also be sure your sidecar wheel is vertical. If it is canted out it will have the same effect as toe out!
All excellent points folks, Good to know about the location of the mounts and keeping the car wheel vertical...
I did the alignment and lean out with ballast in the car and road tested with the same weight in it...
thank you much...
Rob
Yes, it is a '99 California EV 1100...
All right, so yesterday I went out and put two hundred thirty-five miles on the rig, tooling around the back roads with some other Hacks and motorcycles...
Man the crown of the road makes a huge influence on the right hand pull which is still a bit excessive, I think. Oh and the wind was pretty stiff toward the end of the ride, that and that huge friggin' Guzzi Barn Door windshield along with the sail area from the car really pushed me around.
The set up overall feels good, convidence inspiring and sure footed, just an arm full to steer... getting close...
Let me get this correct...
I put enough weight on both the cycle and in the chair to replicate rider an passenger, then do the alignments...? Is that correct...?
Seems that I do not have enough lean out or the toe in is not correct at this time as it still pulls right. I may get to it today but we are going out for a visit with our Daughter and Son and their families so I may not.
Thanks,
rd
Just as a side note... There were four other rigs in this group, a Ural & two Dnepers, one with an 800cc BMW engine grafted into it... I still would be crawling up their butts on these long hills over in the Western Hills of Maine... I learned to stay well back so that I could enjoy pulling those hills.
another way you can compress the suspension to do your set up is to use cargo straps.Sit on the bike and run a strap from the seat rail or there abouts to the sprocket or swingarm.Sinch it tight to hold the suspension compressed.toss some weight or a peson in the sidecar and do your set up
I have the Kawi Nomad with the Velorex 562B I just went for a 60 miler around the canyon to the west Of my town, My left hand fell asleep, so today I put 1/2 turn lean out on it and it is less. But as some one else here said it feels Like I'm falling off the thing and the car lifts or seems to easily again. It is not drifting near as much. Before anyone says it, I have absolutely no scuffing or cupping of any kind on any of the tires. Toe in must be perfect.
rob
a leading link or raked tree will make the steering issue a lot easier and a linear actuator on the sidecar suspension would dull (probably make it nonexistant)the effect of the crown in the road
stacy
I'm wondering if you can have the correct toe-in/lean-out, but feel like you're going overboard in right-handers because the springs aren't stiff enough?
Originally written by Uncle Ernie on 7/2/2006 9:21 PM
I'm wondering if you can have the correct toe-in/lean-out, but feel like you're going overboard in right-handers because the springs aren't stiff enough?
In a way YES. What is hapening here is that the sidecars are light (Velroex 562s) and are on fairly heavy bikes. So...it pulls to the right...then what is the cure? Lean out the bike! So...we lean out the bike and end up with a tipsy feeling rig. Why? Light sidecar!
Corrections to this? Add ballast is one. But then if the sidecar suspension is not up to the task we end up with a rig that heels over quite a bit in left handers.
Solution number two: Increase track width by moving the sidecar farther away from the bike. This works but the mounts must be up to the task to prevent movement.
Another solution is to learn to climb all over the rig in the turns like some kind of a monkey to keep the sidecar down in right handers and to keep it from heeling over so much in lefties.
Best solution? Beef up sidecar to make it heavier and add a stronger suspension. A swaybar will help too.
Other wise keep playing with the setup until it is the best you can get it.
Originally written by stacebg on 7/2/2006 5:57 PM
rob
a leading link or raked tree will make the steering issue a lot easier and a linear actuator on the sidecar suspension would dull (probably make it nonexistant)the effect of the crown in the roadstacy
Sorry for the delay Stacy, been ridin'... 🙂
I do have the Unit LL front fork on the Guzzi. I have been checking toe in and that is right at 5/8", Lean out has been increasing (as per suggestions from folks here) to easy the feel. It is now working better. I will put some more miles on to be sure but as of yesteday, the rig finally is feelling correct.
What is the linear actuator ...? Can I apply this to the 565 Veleorex...?
Thanks for the reply.
Rob
clude, do you want to discuss this further in my broken shock thread?
Ernie,
So is that the springs on the car's shock or the LL shocks or the cycle...?
The Tug has the shocks set stiff, I will check on the others...
Thanks for the reply...
Claude,
I would like to know more about the swaybar application... Velorex will know about this ..? Or is this an aftermarket item...?
I have no problem with hangin' off on right handers, I actuallty do that to a certain degree but not a lot.... The left hand turn feel is also getting better with teh lean out set out. I will look into a beefeier shock for the car too....
It is getting to be more fun, we're really close I think...
I think I will ballast up to be as close to the main passenger's weight, ride it to work tomorrow and really analyze what I'm experiencing. It is a bit much when I'm watching the front end and trying to critique the ride with Sue aboard... She always asks "Whatcha lookin' at.?" 🙂
Thanks much,
Rob
