Hey Lunatic, sidecar mounts...?

I ain't Lee but for what it's worth I usually just can the lower rear mount and make another one on Velorexes. Also prefer to keep the lower mounts on the bike spread apart if at all possible. That may require a subframe or a partial one. Is this necessary? You can get by without it of course but it does make a difference if the rig is run hard in many cases.
We have a Guzzi California in the shop now that will have a Velorex 700 mounted to it. This one will get a full subframe on the bike. The sidecar is getting a torsion bar suspension with tilt adjuster, a 1" spindle and a 15" aluminum centerline wheel to carry a 165r15 tire. A Harley fender will be mounted onto the modified sidecar swingarm. Sidecar frame will be plated with (probably .120) sheet steel for strength and weight. Upper struts will be the turnbuckle type for ease of adjustment. It may get a swaybar later on but it is doubtful at this time.
Yes the 562 and 700 are the same sidecar frame.

No Lee here either,
The 565 Tour frame is quite different than the 700C & 700S frame. Three tubes front to rear and three lateral tubes, much stiffer frame. The 563 Tour shares this frame.
562E, 562S, 562C, 700S and 700C share similar frames consisting of a perimeter tube frame without the extra reinforcing.
All models, early or late, share the same mount set.

Lonnie

Thanks guys... See this is where I get really confused as to the use of a sub frame... The Guzzi has a very substantial frame and the need for a subframe stuck onto it leads me to think that anything "Added on" would make more flex...
What exactly is the benefit of the sub frame on a Guzzi specifically..?

I agree about the stance of the mounts.. I did not realize the differences in the 565 vs 700 models.

I can post a couple of shots of the one that I saw and maybe you can give me some feedback...
Thanks much,
Rob

Rob Wrote:
...The Guzzi has a very substantial frame and the need for a subframe stuck onto it leads me to think that anything "Added on" would make more flex...
What exactly is the benefit of the sub frame on a Guzzi specifically..?
I agree about the stance of the mounts....

Rob,
The last sentence you wrote above is one reason for a subframe to me. Keep in mind that with a stock frame one has to 'seach' for attachement points for a strp clamp or some such device to be mounted. Is the position of that mount going to 'jive' with the positions of th emounts on the sidecar itself? If not then something has to be fabricated or otherwise rigged up to make point 'a' connect to point 'b'. Will these positions allow ease of adjustment? Strustural stability etc?
No, a good subframe does not 'add more flex' but takes it away. Flexing and movenment can be encouraged by th efact that the mounting points available on a stock frame have to be 'reached' by other things.
I like to mount a sidecar and have the attachment points placed where WE want them ...I do not like to be locked in by what may or may not work due to the bike's frame design or muffle placement or whatever.
Can it be done? yes Do I still do it if the person want sit? Yes, if it does not create an issue of concern structurally. Do all bike sneed subframes? No, but it is noice to have good easily adjustbale mounts that are safe a will not flex or move once setup.

Don't know how else to explain this, hope i tmakes some sense.

Claude,
That is making good sense... First off I did not fully understand where flex came from. I was thinking that the flex was a fault of the motorcycle frame. The Guzzi frame being as substantial as it is, that had me scratchin' me 'ead...
The explanation of it generating from the attachments and extended reach-rods clarifies that. I get it...

It would be nice to have all the strength and no flex without the need for a sub-frame however, if that is what it comes to then so be it.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me...
Rob

Claude, You read my mind exactly. I have no experience with sidecars at all. I have a subframe and sidecar inroute. My thinking was that the subframe would help strenghten the connection but also as a newbie, it would help me place the connections where they should be. Sort of take the decision away from me so that I would not make a mistake this first time.

Originally written by Lano on 9/24/2006 7:42 PM

My thinking was that the subframe would help strenghten the connection but also as a newbie, it would help me place the connections where they should be. Sort of take the decision away from me so that I would not make a mistake this first time.

Or make up for one that was previously set up, shall we say, not correctly...

So, tell me this Claude. How exactly does a sub-frame attach to the Tonti framed Guzzis...? Is this a major alteration..?
Thanks,
rd

Lino Tonti's frame design was of course a good one. I had posted earlier that a subframe may not be necessary although it may make things convenient. I have worked on rigs with loop frames with no subframe and they did well although the advantages of a subframe are still a real deal. Even a partial one at the rear can be nice even if not totally necessary. My posts in this thread were speaking for the most part in general terms related to suframes. Maybe the way to look at all of this specific to your rig is to determine where the weak link is and then attack that with whatever means seems good. Your answer may be different than mine or Lonnie's but if it works it works. I have not done enough Guzzi rigs to have a straight answer off the top of my head. Possibly Jay or Lonnie have?
I do have a 70 Ambo here now as well as aN earlier California model. Feelk free to email me at cstanley@sunlink.net or call 570 765 8310 during the day and we can talk.