I wanted a reverse for my 2004 Ultra with TLE sidecar. Doesn’t everybody? I checked the available options last year and found only one. That would be the Champion. I checked further and discovered that they are getting close to $1,500 for the unit that consists basically of three gears, some nuts and a few other items. Also, it required removing 1/4 inch of the transmission selector shaft and some milling inside of the right side cover in order to clear the added parts.
Since I began checking, I notice that Harley-Davidson has now developed a reverse that will be offered with their new trike models. These are going to be built in cooperation with Lehman Trike Company, a Canadian organization. That of course won't work on my five-speed transmission even if I could get one. I shudder to think of what it would cost coming from the HD Company anyway
Being skilled in machine work and welding in my own right, I decided that I would try to build one. This would partly be to cut the costs and also to gain a bit of satisfaction out of the whole process. I recall a year or so ago, I saw on this forum a fellow who did his own using a starter motor with a full-time chain drive on the sidecar wheel. It had a clutch that is engaged when backing up. That looked and sounded like a nice idea although I decided to go a slightly different direction.
I don't know if any of you ever recall the little two-stroke bicycle motors that mounted on the front handlebars of a bicycle. There were several brands available when I was a kid. The one I got used from a friend was called the Travis Bike motor. It used a rough roller that was pushed against the front to drive it when the motor was running. In fact, that was how the motor was started, but I digress. There were also other companies that built the same sort of thing that fitted on the rear wheel. In any case, I decided that a roller, driven by an electric motor would be just the ticket for a light-duty reverse. I'm thinking that I would only be using it for level pavement situations and that it need not be all that powerful. I was in bed at the time recuperating from a nasty hip operation and so I had a lot of time to peruse the Internet and other sources.
I decided that a 4-wheel/ATV-type winch would be the ticket. I bought a 3,000# Gorilla Brand Trail winch on eBay for $45.00. It is one fine little unit. It came with a dual 80 amp contactor which I ultimately didn't use since I'm only going one way, backwards.
With that in mind, I also checked my parts stock and found that I had the original near-new clutch cable from my TLE conversion. The Harley sidecar makes use of a longer clutch cable that comes with their installation kit so I had the original cable left over. I decided to use that for a connection between a control lever mounted to the right of the rear brake pedal. This would pull the winch with a roller added onto the sidecar wheel at the front just under the tip of the sidecar fender.
For the record, the basic rule that I use when modifying motorcycles is that if it requires drilling holes in the bike, welding anything to the bike, cutting parts off of the bike or bending anything on the bike, I just don’t do it. That was the rule I followed on this modification, especially since I wasn’t sure that it would work and, if it didn’t, I wanted to be able to remove it gracefully with no regrets.
Another consideration was that it had to be operated from the bike’s battery. I thought about an added battery and considered that it was just too much of a pain and probably wouldn’t be necessary. While I know that these winches can be current hogs if used for their intended purpose, pulling cars and ATV’s out of mud holes and ravines to name two. I felt that the use that I would be giving it would be likely to use far less current. It turns out that I was correct since current usage is less than 10 amps when backing up! I checked this with an ammeter and a car battery after the mechanical installation was made but before I had connected to the bike’s electrical sys
Hello Gaylord,
That is a nice way to do things and a good parking break at the same time.
Congratulations.
Sven Peter
Originally written by Peter Pan on 10/11/2008 4:06 PM
Hello Gaylord,
That is a nice way to do things and a good parking break at the same time.
Congratulations.
Sven Peter
Right, Sven. It will act as a parking brake. I still need to add a latching feature on the control handle. That will be another winter job.
I would encourage anyone who is handy with tools and metal to give it a try.
Very clever and impressive.
Your fabricating and machining skills are above average.
Originally written by Mark in Idaho on 10/12/2008 11:14 AM
Very clever and impressive.
Your fabricating and machining skills are above average.
Well, thank you but most of it was self-taught. I did work as a Rocket engine mechanic for about five years when I was but a mere child. We did a bit of aluminum farication with rivets and bolts. I also took mechanical drawing in high school. Lastly, I took a one year welding course at a local communuity college. I would certainly recommend that to anyone who likes to fabricate. I've always been fascinated with welding. It's a nice thing to know, especially if you own a sidecar rig. LOL
There are lots of folks who could do the same I'd bet.
Thanks again.
Great job there!!! Thanks for sharing.
Hello Gaylord, I do not know how you achieved the cable lever, but a simple wire bow as you have on a water hose gun (spanish: pitón, german Wasserschlauchpistole), made out of spring steel would do the trick of the lock action for parking break.
A through hole in the handle base and clip in the bow.
For to use it, just pull the handle and flip over the bow into the gap. done
Best regards
Sven
Originally written by Peter Pan on 10/13/2008 8:01 AM
Hello Gaylord, I do not know how you achieved the cable lever, but a simple wire bow as you have on a water hose gun (spanish: pitón, german Wasserschlauchpistole), made out of spring steel would do the trick of the lock action for parking break.
A through hole in the handle base and clip in the bow.
For to use it, just pull the handle and flip over the bow into the gap. doneBest regards
Sven
Thanks for the idea. That would be simple and effective. I'll add it to my bag of tricks.
Another thing I'm presently contemplating is a voltage booster unit to increase the voltage to the winch motor to 18 or 24 VDC. Since the useage is only for a short period, it would speed things up immensely.
I did some calculations recently and, with an internal ratio in the winch planetary gears of 153:1 and considering the size of the roller and the diameter of the sidecar wheel. I came up with the fact that the winch motor is turning approximately 1000 turns for each turn of the wheel. That gives good power but I could add a bit of speed with more voltage. I doubt it would damage the motor since it's quite well-built. We shall see.
Thanks again!
The voltage boost was a trick we used to do back in the 6V battery days to rev up the starter motors with a 12V battery. Worked fine as long as the load wasn't long enough to overheat the windings and melt the lacquer insulation. Brushes didn't last as long but they were cheap.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 10/13/2008 9:42 AM
The voltage boost was a trick we used to do back in the 6V battery days to rev up the starter motors with a 12V battery. Worked fine as long as the load wasn't long enough to overheat the windings and melt the lacquer insulation. Brushes didn't last as long but they were cheap.
Lonnie
That's right. I used to have a 1956 Oldsmobile sedan that was one of the last GM cars to have a 6 volt system. There was an 8 volt battery (four cells) that you could buy and I installed one. The generator would put out almost 9 volts for charging anyway so it made for better starting with 8+ volts to the starter.
There was also a 6 to 12 volt battery available at auto stores in the 1960's with a switching relay built into the top. It was actually two 6 volt batteries in one case and it would provide 12 volts for starting and then would revert to 6 volts. I had one on my 1941 Ford Convertible for several years and it really worked very well.
The use that I'm giving the winch motor is only about 45-60 seconds at a time to back out of my barn where I keep the rig. Backing out of a parking spot would be about the same or less. The Gorilla winch that I have is rated at one hp and can pull as much as 145 amps under extreme load, as when doing a pull up to 3000# with a cable. Due to the nature of the service I'm using it for which is constant and low load, I'm running much less than that, not even 10 amps, so I doubt it will even get warm with slightly more voltage.
The main reason I did this reverse this way was to avoid doing any cutting on the inside of the transmission. While I know that the Champion is an excellent unit, I didn't want to do any cutting on the bike or transmisson, As I said earlier, I have adopted a philosophy that I keep my motorcycles stock, exclusive of the adding on of the sidecar. Since it's a Harley sidecar, it was strictly a bolt-on anyway.
Oh yeah, saving money is another one of my favorite things. LOL.
Regards.
The 12Volt on the 6V starter engine is by the way the only way to get my 1960 Willies Superhurricane going. On 6 Volt it sucks 370A and doesn't start well. on 12V I do not know how much it pulls, but the engine starts rather easily and the starter not even gets warm. The voltage regulator was fine tuned with just a little spring bending. The generator didn't hastle at all.
Now I search for a "few" parts... Like a new oil pump before geting it on the road and gravel again.
What I ask myself is if there is a way to boost directly from a 12 Volt batery to 18-24VoltDC at reasonable amps....I have a small voltage hacker unit for 2000V from a car battery as you use it for cow fences, but that is no alternative for you Gaylord.
Regards
Sven
Hi Sven!
There are as you know units available to boost voltage. Most of them have a inverter built in to convert the 12 VDC input to 120 VAC. This is then converted to 18 or 24 VDC for use. The amount of current that can be handled is determined by the size of the components.
I'm looking around for a surplus unit that is 12 VDC in and perhaps adjustable to 24 VDC out. I've seen several in the internet but they are prohibitively expensive.
I needed a power supply for my "G" Scale Markland model railroad. They wanted $400 for a dual power pack and I built one with dual 5 amp VDC use for $90. It's half of what I need. It adjusts from 0 to 24 VDC @ up to 5 amps and it's perfect for a model railroad to control the speed of the locomotives. If I combine that schematic with a suitable sized DC-AC intveter, I'm sure it would work.The components would have to be sized properly, however, to obtain the necessary output current, as mentioned.
In any case, it's not critical. The unit works and speeding it up will be a nice project for this winter.
I had thought about using a car starter motor. They run a bit faster but they simply use way too much current and the winch is self-contained and has the necessary bearings to hold the roller already built in.
My next project, by the way, is an electric shifter. Since I got my left leg fixed recently, I could get by without one but it would be nice.
They are getting $650 to $800 for those. The two brands of which I've heard are Kliktronic, built in the UK and Pingel, a USA p[roduct, I think. I have friends who have those on their bikes and they work very well.
I think it could be done with two automobile starter solenoids. It's a matter of getting enough pull and packaging it small enough so that it doesn't look too bad and take up too much room. The electronics would be nothing more than two relays, one for up and another for down. You would need some diodes to prevent back voltage from damaging your relays but those are inexpensive. I've already got such a unit underway but havemn't been able to get back to it.
I'm not trying to put all of the motorcycling accessory companies out of business, just having fun along the way. LOL.
Regards
I did work as a Rocket engine mechanic for about five years when I was but a mere child.
Child prodigy rocket scientist? Wow.
Originally written by gregbenner on 10/14/2008 8:59 AM
I did work as a Rocket engine mechanic for about five years when I was but a mere child.
Child prodigy rocket scientist? Wow.
I knew that would impress some folks. It was so long ago, I can no longer differentiate my childhood from the rest of the years. LOL
As far as being a Rocket Scientist, I will deny that. They had engineers working but they weren't what I would call scientists in the strict sense of the word.
I've been on a lot of freight trains but I'm no Engineer either,in the strictest sense of the word. lol
No doctor either but I've been in a lot of drug stores.
Lonnie
