I am curious about the toe-in that was mentioned. I am in no way an expert with sidecars, had 5, presently own a 1991 Harley Softail Springer with a 2005 Motorvation Spyder sidecar, but when I read the toe-in measurement I was amazed. I have mine set at 1/4" toe-in, 1/8" camber (lean) to the bike, and 11.5" trail. The sidecar tire was changed at 22,400 miles and that was due to a wear pattern from being out of balance. It threw the inside weight off the tire and it was so little I didn't notice it until the wear pattern was there and too late. But then 22,400 miles for the tire was pretty good I thought. (Sorry got off subject!!!)
What is the normal toe-in suppose to be? Do I need to go change mine?
Just a worry now for me. Let me know.
Thanks for the support and help,
Larry,
offically I am:
MAJ William L. O'Daniel
S-6, 2nd SEG, 1st Bde, 75th DIV(TS)
Ft. Sill, OK
The toe-in was what was in the set-up directions form Cal Side Car. But from what I have read here in previous post it is more about what it takes to get the rig running straight down the road. This the first time for me to actually set-up a car and I'm finding it to be a bit of a challenge. I also have a Ural but it came already set-up. It handle's real nice so have not had to change anything on it.
Dick
Larry,
Toe-in is one of the many things, like wheel lead and lean-out, that many quote numbers on but the numbers may not have much bearing on actual conditions facing you, or your particular needs.
Taken out of context most of these numbers mean nothing.
Toe-in measurements are taken from various points by different sources. Lasers, planks, steel tubes, string, flourescent lamps, chalk on the floor are all used. Measuring sometimes from the axles, the ends of an 8 foot 2x4, wheel to wheel, Wheel to 2x4, whatever. No single numbers work here.
Optimum toe-in depends on the track of the combo, placement of the wheel on the sidecar chassis, whether at the back or midships. Also the placement of the sidecar in relation to the motorcycles wheels and wheelbase (lead). Optimum wheel lead is also a variable, dependent upon wheelbase of the bike. If the desired usage is high speed you may want to use more lead. For slow and easy use, less lead.
Optimum lean-out is also measured arbitrarily. Framing square, angle guage, protractor, carpenters level, loaded or unloaded vehicles. Wheel and tire sizes are sometimes part of the equation, sometimes not.
All of these factors affect handling and ease of steering a sidecar outfit. All affect gas mileage and tire wear.
There is no panacea, no one size fits all, no ideal numbers.
Your combo needs to be tweaked for neutral steering at (your) normal speeds on the type of roadways most travelled (if it has no camber adjusting devices) with normal loading. Balanced steering right to left is desirable (full left turns will still take more effort with a right hand sidecar). Observing the sidecar tire wear pattern is the best indicator of whether you need further tweaking of alignment or not. A flat centered wear pattern means you've finally got it right.
Your ideal numbers will differ from the next guy's.
Lonnie
Lonnie,
Thanks, this is my 5th car and have learned a lot with each. I think I have mine set pretty close to right now, goes straight, doesn't shake it's the handlebars when slowing down, and best of all, the tire wear on the rig is acceptable. I would like better tire life but feel I will have to find just the right tire for it.
As you said, the measurements are based on where you measure.
Again Thanks for the info.
Larry
Hi Lonnie,
A few posts back in this thread you refer to problems with attachment hardware for the early Friendship sidecars. I believe my FII still has the early attachment hardware you described - could you possibly give me a little more info on what to look out for (how to inspect) and/or more details on sound replacement hardware and where to get it. (I did note your mention of CSC)
I had started this as a personal message to you, but thought since there seem to be a few people working on old Friendships at the moment that any additional information might be of use to others too.
Stout
Stout,
The pre 1989 CSC cars used a very lightweight ball and collet type of mount to the motorcycle. In time these have proven to be inadequate and even subject to failure. Later California upgraded their mounts to a clevis and heim joint (rod end) system. This system is now used by a majority of sidecar and mountings manufacturers. There are several vendors at this site who can furnish you with upgraded mountings for the older CSC sidecars. These are strictly bolt on replacements for the early mounts. No modifications are necessary.
There are also upgrades from the torsion strap suspension to coil over shock suspension available if desired.
Personally I have favored the swing-arm conversion using an airshock for an outfit that uses various loadings. This can work (to a degree) much like having a tilting system since you can raise or lower the sidecar with air pressure.
Normally we could furnish these mods, but we are currently in the process of moving our operation to Boise, Idaho.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar
nwsidecar@aol.com
Lonnie
