This may or may not be nitpicking but electric fuel pumps should be not be wired direct to the battery. The concern is if a line comes off in a crash they will continue to pump even if the ignition is turned off or the kill switch is used. Due to this if anyone did not know where your switch was they coudl not turn it off for you. Of course if anyone was super concerned additional steps could be taken to shut the pump down whther the ignition was on or off in a crash.
Originally written by claude #3563 on 11/16/2005 10:23 PM
This may or may not be nitpicking but electric fuel pumps should be not be wired direct to the battery. The concern is if a line comes off in a crash they will continue to pump even if the ignition is turned off or the kill switch is used. Due to this if anyone did not know where your switch was they coudl not turn it off for you. Of course if anyone was super concerned additional steps could be taken to shut the pump down whther the ignition was on or off in a crash.
Not nitpicking at all.
Lots of ways to do this safely. All fuel injected cars and those with factory electric fuel pumps have an inertia switch somewhere that will kill power on impact. Ford wagons from early eighties had it behind the kick panel in the left rear of the car. Bronco II's had it behind the glove box, etc. Talk to your mechanic then go to the boneyard.
Just run your wire from fuel pump to inertia switch to power source.
Other options, the Chevy LUV wired the pump through the alternator. If it stopped turning the fuel quit flowing. Jaguar did it with an oil pressure switch, no oil pressure, no fuel flow. I knew a guy once who had a pressure switch under the seat. If he got off the bike the fuel pump wouldn't work.
The important part is that if you use an electric pump you have to make provisions for safety whether it's a motorcycle, speedboat, airplane, or lawn mower.
Bob
I agree. Examples of what I'm thinking about; 1) Connect your fuel cell with a nylon ratchet strap, or bolt through metal tabs welded to the fuel cell, or metal straps - not a bungie cord. 2) Use a fuel cell made of adequately sized material to withstand a crash; like a racing fuel cell or similar (cost: $100 +/-), vs a thin material gas tank (outboard motor gas tank comes to mind for one). 3) Like Claude said, make sure the transfer pump turns off with the ignition. Also, make sure it is fused. 4) A loose gas can in the trunk is definitely a dangerous practice. Fumes accumulate in the trunk, gas can tip over hazard, etc. 5) Make sure the cell is vented, and that the line empties at a location that is away from the exhaust or other heat/ignition source.
On another note, we can disagree on where to put it. Obviously, gravity feed is the best method in all ways, which is a vote for a pillion location. A switch method I saw for a transfer pump utliized a bathroom timer switch. That way, the rider did not need to remember to turn off the toggle switch after a certain time period, before overfilling the main tank and dumping gas on the highway.
In all cases, if the fuel cell capacity is larger than the main tank, there is the issue of overfilling the main tank no matter if the main tank is filled by a transfer pump or gravity. I had that condition on one of my two wheeler set ups, a gravity feed system on the pillion. I readily admit that I can't recall the number of times I forgot to turn off the shut off valve, and overflowed the main tank on to the pavement.
I'm lucky that my GL1100 has a fuel pump on the engine, and that it will pull gas from the fuel cell located on the sidecar frame. I don't need a transfer pump. I merely operate the engine direct off the fuel cell. When the fuel cell is empty, I shut off the fuel cell petcock and turn on the main tank. I love the simplicity.
Being low-tech and having run out of gas twice on my last long run and once on the run before that (with a different rig) in the desert, a long way from a gas station, I have opted to purchase a Tour Tank. It will be luggage rack mounted with steel straps and will fit on any of my three (at present) rigs. If I, or any bike mates run out of gas, we're covered. No bunch of extra gas to get stale and no extra tank hanging on the bikes when not needed. For a long run, I'll fill it up before I leave. If not needed for a long trip, I will just leave it on the shelf, not on a bike.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 11/16/2005 12:44 AM
Being low-tech and having run out of gas twice on my last long run and once on the run before that (with a different rig) in the desert, a long way from a gas station, I have opted to purchase a Tour Tank. It will be luggage rack mounted with steel straps and will fit on any of my three (at present) rigs. ....> If not needed for a long trip, I will just leave it on the shelf, not on a bike.
Lonnie
How is it designed to plumb in? Those mounting brackets look pretty permanent to me and the plastic quick connects look fragile. They look like they're designed to be removed for an occasional servicing.
The price is good though. Has anyone used one of these for a while and put it on and off regularly?
Originally written by SidecarMike on 11/17/2005 7:06 AM
Originally written by Hack'n on 11/16/2005 12:44 AMBeing low-tech and having run out of gas twice on my last long run and once on the run before that (with a different rig) in the desert, a long way from a gas station, I have opted to purchase a Tour Tank. It will be luggage rack mounted with steel straps and will fit on any of my three (at present) rigs. ....> If not needed for a long trip, I will just leave it on the shelf, not on a bike.Lonnie
How is it designed to plumb in? Those mounting brackets look pretty permanent to me and the plastic quick connects look fragile. They look like they're designed to be removed for an occasional servicing.The price is good though. Has anyone used one of these for a while and put it on and off regularly?
I dont have one [yet, but soon!], but itlooks like you just put a 'Y' connection on the fuel line below the tank petcock, with a shutoff valve.If the tourtank is higher than your bike tank, the gas will fill up into the bike tank, as long as the petcocks are open..I wouldnt move it around once it'd installed.[one rig] the idea of putting a cheap pack over the tank makes it look great, all year around. make sure you use the gas every once in awhile so it is fresh.
I'm a firm believer in brass fittings for fuel hookups.
Quick connects almost always leak at some point.
The fuel shut off and transfer hose are all I will use. No plumbed in connections for versatility. I can wait a few minutes and rest my butt while transferring fuel to my (or another) bike's tank.
If using non-kit parts be sure that all valves, seals and any sealant, teflon or other are gasoline compatible. Todays gas additives (naptha, alcohol etc.) will eat most plastic sealants, Orings and teflon tape and cause leakage later.
Lonnie
Bob,
It comes with a really nice wrap of heavy material that cleans easily and looks just like a bed roll the Harley guys carry. The included shut off valve works great too. I put mine on the luggage rack of the Velorex. So far everyone thats seen it asked why I carried my bed roll there instead of in the car.
David
according to the tourtank ad, the 3.5 tank has no cover, but in the customer pics a guy put a neat looking pack over his 3.5 tank. he cut the bottom out and slipped it over the tank.zips top open to fill it. it has extra pockets on the sides and back for small stuff./.super!
I have a 40 gallon plastic fuel cell tank out of a modified stock car if anyone is interested. Think of how far you could go with that baby ! !
Lets see 40 gallons at 30 miles per gallon = 1200 miles? Plus say 150 off of you regular tank equals 1350 miles ! ! ! Not bad...heck think of all the goodies you could eat while your buddies fill up their wimpy little tanks at a fuel stop! And ballast? Man, 40 times what? 7 pounds per gallon? 280 pounds...whew, how do you spell 'S T A B L E ' at least in right handers..LOL.
Any takers? This is pure spam ..only one left better hurry !!
HMMMMM....Now, if I can fit in my FII trunk, behind the seat.....;oP
I'm using a Summit Racing 4 gallon Aluminum Fuel cell on my Rig. It's permanently mounted in the bike's trunk. Gravity feed to the main, vent line coming out at the base of the rear fender. The plumbing took a little finaggling to get right, had to keep ordering different connectors and adapters as I fighured out the bugs. I tested it around town until I was satisfied and did the big run from here in North Florida to Everett, WA this past summer. I was able to cover 250-275 miles without any problem.
I also considered mounting it in the trunk of the rig, but didn't want the hassle of havin gto install and wire up a fuel pump. KISS, gravity is free.
If anyone out there is considering this, I have some digital photos of the process I went through, and some additional detailed info.
i got my aux fuel tank mounted on the seat behind me, in front of my bike trunk. I am puting on a solo seat, and a new , shorter home made rack, that gives me room for the tank. I got it hooked up with gravity feed also. no messing with fuel pumps, long lines, ETC.just open the valve and let the gas run into the carbs, just like stock tank. it will also fill up my stock tank.I can also stick a longer line on it to refuel a buddy stuck out on the road, if needed. http://tinyurl.com/bh7a6http://tinyurl.com/b9uje
Originally written by sidecarLenny on 11/11/2005 6:15 PM
Affordable and simple.
Just be aware that some passengers do complain about the smell of gas on
Ural sidecars with the jerry can. Where were you going to put the can?? What sidecar do you have?????
Never mind the passenger - case in point, this past summer, i had a 10 litre jerry can inside the sidecar, freshly filled - except the numpty who insisted on filling it for me at the gas station (ok, i'm lazy, sue me) didn't tighten the vent after filling it.. 100 miles later, at my favorite burger joint post-ride, a wild eyed guy came up to me and asked me if I owned the rig outside (duh, only one in motorsickle leathers in the joint, you think?) .. he described a huge puddle of something under my sidecar, and the rig was looking like it was sinking into the pavement!
Turns out, that relatively benign gas tank escaped it's bungee cords and flopped inside the rig sometime during my ride, and started slow leaking out the vent hole - by the time i got the gas can out of the sidecar, there was less than a litre left. The other 9 litres were making their exit out the sidecar body mount holes, and pooling in the footwells and rapidly dissolving my custom cut floor carpets.
I shudder to think what may have happened if i hadn't built into the wiring system a seperate atmospherically isolated switch box.. lots of relays in my setup.. and the sidecar is a fully enclosed sidecar. Gives me an excellent mental visual of signalling a right hand turn, and detonating with the combined effects of 9 litres of air/fuel explosive in an enclosed atmosphere .. 🙁
I never did get back to that burger.. the driveway was dissolving under the rig so i got out while the getting was good 🙁
A 5 gallon dune buggy tank is in the works, needless to say.
Bill wrote(after dumping a bunch of gas inside his sidecar):
>>I shudder to think what may have happened if i hadn't built into the wiring system a seperate atmospherically isolated switch box.. lots of relays in my setup.. and the sidecar is a fully enclosed sidecar. Gives me an excellent mental visual of signalling a right hand turn, and detonating with the combined effects of 9 litres of air/fuel explosive in an enclosed atmosphere .. :(<<
But Bill can you imagine how spectacular a video of that would have been?
Flaming Hannigan with rider bailing off .... or exploding Hannigan with rider flying through air....cool.
