We are renting a Yamaha Royal Star 1300 with a Higgens side car. The rig has a steering damper and the trail has not been modified. After a couple thousand miles of twisties, I have concluded the steering is a bit heavy. I have a couple questions. First, I have added air to the front tire, and plan to remove the steering damper. Since its a rental, I dont have any tools, so will do this in a couple days when we stop back at the rental shop. They are a moto shop, NOT a sidecar shop. I also thought it might help to raise the front fork tubes, but not sure if this can be doon on a Royal Star, There are pinch bolts, etc on the upper triple tree, but in the sppace between the upper and lower trees there is a large diameter chrome cover (probably yo give it a massive type look). Does anyone know if this will preclude raising the fork tubes? Any thoughts appreciated. I will likely only have a few hours at the shop, I am pretty sure they will help me, but, as I said, this is not their specialty. Any other easy ideas, or thoughts?? thanks, greg
Raising the fork tubes isn't going to help, that would increase trail, just the opposite of what you would like to do, removing the dampener may help the steering but it real function is to stop low speed wobble of the front tire, unfortunately it looks like your just going to have to put up with the heavy steering which, to say the least, is no fun.
Everything you mentioned will help. How much? That remains to be seen.
Technically, before someoen jumps in here, more air in a front tire increses trail but the trade off is a tire that is easier to turn due to less resistance. Playing with air pressue can do wonders to reduce a headshake also.
From my experience the metric cruisers do well with no damper. Removing the damper can make a drastic difference in how it steers. I woudl surely try that first. You may or may not end up with that low speed headshake but with practice you should be able to ride through it. Don't ride at the speed it shows up if possible.If in traffic and stuck at 'that speed' sometimes playing with the front brake helps the headshake to stop..sometimes not..lol.Of course if it is more than the typical annoying head shake you aill probably be sunk into running the damper unless you want to spend a day playing with setup adjustments etc.
I have attached a picture of how trail is measured. Raising the fork tubes (running them up through the trees) WILL reduce trail a little and also change the steering head angle in relation to the ground slightly. I have noticed some misconception on this a couple of times here so hope the illustration helps. If doing this be sure to check suspension travel for clearance after front end is lowered.Dunno about those chrome sleeves for sure Greg.I would probably not get into this if possible on that bike under your present circustances.
The Higgins sidecar woudl appear to be a decent match for that bike although I am not familar with them in person.
In the twisties, if you have not done this already, try letting the sidecar weight do more of the work for you. Braking late going into turns away from the sidecar and accelrating early into turns toward the sidecar can make a lot of difference in steering effort. If the rig has a seperate sidecar brake you can also play with that going into turns toward the sidecar.
All in all just ride the thing and have fun. Face it, some pay to go to a gym to work out and you have the benefit of working out while seeing some nice country...have fun.
PS, Off Topic etc...Jack plans to have the V Strom shipped to the shop next week.
Originally written by Shadow1100T on 3/8/2008 12:16 AM
Raising the fork tubes isn't going to help, that would increase trail, just the opposite of what you would like to do, removing the dampener may help the steering but it real function is to stop low speed wobble of the front tire, unfortunately it looks like your just going to have to put up with the heavy steering which, to say the least, is no fun.
I am having trouble visualizing why lowering the front end would increase trail? Seems like it would decrease it?
Greg,
Look at the new attached picture below . What isn't considered many times by some is that when running the forks up through the trees the frame will also tilt forward decreasing the steering head angle (rake). All of this together will typically make steering easier and reduce trail . Some bikes are affected more than others. Best to just try it if you wish and see what happens rather than get into a ton of technical stuff.
Note that my previous post above was edited and a new picture added in case anyone missed it. sorry
Thx for the detail Claude, I have been trying to let the rig do some of the work, and ir does help, however, I didn't realize how much difference the reduced trail makes since both my own rigs had this done before I drove them. I will try the damper 1st. My arms are stronger aready....
If sliding the forks up into the triple trees to reduce trail be quite sure there is adequate clearance for any appurtenances such as fenders and radiators when the front end suspension is bottomed out.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Originally written by Hack'n on 3/8/2008 8:20 PM
If sliding the forks up into the triple trees to reduce trail be quite sure there is adequate clearance for any appurtenances such as fenders and radiators when the front end suspension is bottomed out.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Yes indeed. I had previousy wrote:
>>If doing this be sure to check suspension travel for clearance after front end is lowered.<
Years back with our GL1000/ Watsonain outfit I had lowered the rear suspension with some different shocks and ran the fork tubes up through the trees. This thing was low. It had low bars on it a BMW R90S seat etc etc. Didn;t look like a Goldwing. Anyhow after doing these mods I went for a ride over to a friend's motorcycle shop to let him see it. Man the thing handled great and steered pretty darn good even with the low bars. I kept hearing a little clicking kind of noise every once in a whiel but figured I'd check it out when I got there.Pulled into the shop parking area and th eusual gang of guys were hanging out. They all cam eover to check out the redone rig and as soon as I shut it off a huge cloud of steam came out. Water was dripping all over the place from th ebusted radiator from the fender hitting it. Source of clicking noise was found. Normal harrassment foloowed as coudl be expected. I was nto happy of course. Stuck my pipe, still lit , into my vest pocket and began looking over the damage. Pretty soon the vest pocket was on fire...ugh...bad day. Point is check for suspension clearnces if forks are moved up through trees!!! Also, do not stick a lit pipe in your pocket.
Claude,
I had a similar clearance experience with a Harley FXLR I had converted to a springer, with a freshly mounted Sputnik 3 sidecar.
I was driving down Highway 99 in Everett, WA at a good clip on the first test run. Bridge opening ahead with stopped traffic, hit the front brake and when the suspension compressed the front fender hit the front sidecar mount and I was no longer able to steer the front wheel.
The rockers on the springer front end had caused the wheelbase to shorten somewhat under hard braking. Something I hadn't considered.
It was back to the shop drawing board for a redesigned front sidecar mount and clean skivvies.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 3/9/2008 4:02 PM
Claude,
I had a similar clearance experience with a Harley FXLR I had converted to a springer, with a freshly mounted Sputnik 3 sidecar.
I was driving down Highway 99 in Everett, WA at a good clip on the first test run. Bridge opening ahead with stopped traffic, hit the front brake and when the suspension compressed the front fender hit the front sidecar mount and I was no longer able to steer the front wheel.
The rockers on the springer front end had caused the wheelbase to shorten somewhat under hard braking. Something I hadn't considered.
It was back to the shop drawing board for a redesigned front sidecar mount and clean skivvies.Lonnie
Glad to see I am not the only one to commit such bloopers. Actually I think everyone has their moments but few are willing to admit them...LOL.
