Does anyone here have a '65 Pan or later shovel with a sidecar? My '65 has the rear crash bars off and a solo seat. I have the bars and they don't seem to interfere with anything held up in place although it is a close fit on the sidecar side. I'm wondering if they clash with the car once you get rolling? Seems like I saw another one in a pic also without the rear bars. I also want to change the solo seat to a buddy seat since I already have several that match the black/white scheme. Is it customary to not have a buddy seat with a hack? Again going only on pictures, all seem to only have solos. I'm wondering if there is a reason for that? lololol... I'm already getting a hard time from my pan amigos for having the sidecar in the first place... saying I'm creating a "scoot-around." I expect you guys to back me up in the parking lot when I take them to task for that..... lololol.... - AZP
Oh, Harley drivers! My shovels have wooden handles.
Ain't there more important things to discuss about?
Your bike is as old as my younger sister. For sure the bike will respond the same as she: " You are as old as you feel."
Same with bikes, may it be one or the other brand. Well run and maintained they run and run and run...miles, I mean... no, not oil.
The reason why many people run a solo seat is that mainly they will ride only with one passenger at a time, as 3 persons on a rig, even a big one as yours, will feel uncomfortable, so they make themselves as most comfortable as possible.
And the scoot around story... Who shall feel good, you or they? I love the idea of sometimes take a hitchhiker with me as I have met the nicest persons on the road in sometimes ugly situations, so the Idea of a 3rd seat looks to me as a good option.
What I did is, I have a double purpose back seat/luggage base plate. When I need to, I just take off the back solo seat and click in my 46 liter tool/saddle box.
That said, it might sound already to you that i ride a Ural and (hopefully soon again) a Jawa rig. So some people of the high HD sphere will not count on my words...
It all depends on what you head for...
I back you up morally, as I am a little far for muscle support---(the only occasion I had been in the wrong place at the wrong time and with the wrong companionship, costed me 8 years of not knowing what was a day without back pain....so in a new occasion I might take the rabbits choice... might I be of some help still?)
Sven 😉
azpaul50 - 3/20/2014 3:51 PM Does anyone here have a '65 Pan or later shovel with a sidecar? My '65 has the rear crash bars off and a solo seat. I have the bars and they don't seem to interfere with anything held up in place although it is a close fit on the sidecar side. I'm wondering if they clash with the car once you get rolling? Seems like I saw another one in a pic also without the rear bars. I also want to change the solo seat to a buddy seat since I already have several that match the black/white scheme. Is it customary to not have a buddy seat with a hack? Again going only on pictures, all seem to only have solos. I'm wondering if there is a reason for that? lololol... I'm already getting a hard time from my pan amigos for having the sidecar in the first place... saying I'm creating a "scoot-around." I expect you guys to back me up in the parking lot when I take them to task for that..... lololol.... - AZP
AZP,
People generally remove them for several reasons, the spacing between the bike and sidecar to the rear mounting is a bit close , passangers will sometimes step up and go in between the sidecar and bike using the sidecar frame to enter the sidecar there's more to hold on to with that route. The lighter therory removing extra weight to lighten the rig up, I have seen a couple of older rigs with their sidestand removed, not a good idea should the sidecar need to be removed in an emergency.
The solo seat vs the buddy seat to me that's a personal preference to the owners taste I have seen a fair amount of older rigs with buddy seats. Harley in the late teens 20's and very early 30's made a tandem seat that attached to the rear of the frame with a hand hold for the rear passanger on the bike these were made before the buddy seats, back in those days it was generally their only family transportation.
Like I mentioned to you in one of your earlier threads it's your bike, heck I would put the buddy seat on if only for the added comfort.
Peter Pan - 3/20/2014 11:48 PM
Oh, Harley drivers!... Ain't there more important things to discuss.... Your bike is as old as....Sven, repairing/restoring authentic vintage/antique vehicles requires a whole different process.
Here in Louisiana a motorcycle qualifies for an "Antique" license plate at 25 years. Somehow, I don't yet consider a 1989 vehicle an antique - such as a 1989 GL1500 Goldwing.
Lee
MB5+TW200+CRF250L+GTV300+INT650
XL883R w/Texas Ranger Sidecar
Zuma 50F + Burgman w/Texas Sidecar<Mrs. SwampFox
Picture of a 1941 package truck with a buddy seat, you need to look real close but you can se the helper sprind rod that supports the rear section of the seat. some where I have photos of 65's but I don't believe they had buddy seat's
Lee. I have passed through the mentioned process with my NSU my Willies and many tool machines of all ages (6-90years). The most exagerating and strict folks in this matter I have met were Britts/Thommies, the worst profanater came from California, the worst scraby from Texas and the most inventive ones from Poland and Turkey. There are a thousand ways to kill a flea and each person has to decide for themselves what they pretend to achieve. I stay with the saying. "The difference between good and bad quality is a hair." (nearly all of my rebuilt machines are still in service although I had to give up that part of my job 10 years ago due to health issues, while the ones of my so called competitors gave up sometimes after only a few month)
And my laugh: " Oh, Harley drivers!" was a friendly kidding reaction in remind of an exagerating folk who made the "Top of the World Highway" (Tok, AL - Darwson City, Yukon) 10 days before us. Accourding to him it would have been 150 miles of the worst wash board he ever imagined... in reality it was 13km of soft ground stony road construction, 60-70 km of decent firm gravel and the rest excellent to good asfalt with a few wash outs. Nothing compared to the Alcan Highway between Destruction Bay and the Alaskan border where due to the permafrost road damages my equilibrium sence got conected to any arm movement. (There like a sailor on firm soil I couldn't walk as soon I moved my arms.)
Personall perceptions vary a lot, don't they?
Sven
Sven - Interesting comments for sure! I would also say "insightful" as well. At the basic level, I just want to be like all the other (sidecar) kids, especially as a newbie to sidecars. I certainly never thrashed around sidecar racing in mud or hauled a family in one like during the 30's. I also learned that there is an international interest in most vehicular hobbies that often varies widely from American perspectives. I don't think I've ever been forgiven in Germany for naming my Messerschmitt, "Adolph." As a kid, the best I had was Sears-Allstate 811.40 although my "crew" usually bullied the more affluent Lambretta/Vespa crowd as kids. Sorry about that. Meanwhile, I notice a lot of philosophical sayings here, unlike other forums. I think that is nice. I learned to ride "big" bikes in Japan, on the left side of the road. I will never forget being crowded from the rear by a bus driven by an aging Japanese.... in downtown Hiroshima, not too far from the observatory!! I had to pull off before he ran me over! Then I had a Triumph in SoCal and had to relearn riding on the right side (mostly on US-1). I have this '65 (to replace my '63) for practical reasons due to aging and health. Other than being the first Electraglide, I don't think 1965 is especially important or iconic for Harleys. Societally, the American culture was in substantial transition then and ill-defined. I'd much rather have an old rigid but no longer have the endurance to operate one. WIth the sidecar, I'll probably end up with my '65 more reflective of 1940's and 50's esthetics. Despite contemporay stature in world affairs, I will still hang on to American values... even if many of our products were junk during and after the Marshall Plan. We retooled our former adversaries and didn't invest in ourselves! I'm going with the buddy seat and bars. So, anyone got any black/white cable wrap??? I probably won't be stisfied until the hack looks like a black/white saddle oxford shoe.... lololol.- AZP
Definetely Paul,
this forum is great. For information, friendship and personal grows as philosophical aspects at least once a week come up.
And we have quite a few persons active who are real understaters about their knowledge which they share without restriction and good examples of attitude to follow.
Feel free to put any question on the table and you will get an answer. not from the purists, but from the practical point of view.
That is the good about sidecar pusher communities I have met in Europe and here via the internet. Sincere, unique and independently thinking authentic people of all professions, you will not find easily at any corner.
You have rolled through the world and find back to your American values. the one or the other might argue about it, but in deed: It is funny how specially an emigrant over the years finds back to his roots and lives them in his private world.
Ask me a Prussian blue eyed Prussian, with Prussian blue on his hands, living this month his 25th anniversary in Costa Rica....
Grandma's Meta's main lessons became each day more important...
Don't try to be anything else, but you yourself.
A man is as much worth as his word.
He/she is as strong as the consequence he/she applies his/hers principles with.
And the principles have to last the whole life.
So when the owner of a service station in my neighbourhood told me a few weeks ago:
"To drive a rig is an excellent manner to honour your ancestors,"
It not only poured down like oil, but in fact is the best explanation of why I came to ride rigs and specially my last one. The Ural which is the copy of the bike Grandfather Heinz (Meta's husband was brought to field lazaret in North Africa twice, and a direct long term follower of the 500ccm Beemer Grandfather Karl Paul dug in under his cellar in Berlin in early 1939.
We all hopefully come back to our roots somewhen in our lives because the rootless will get washed away by time.
The secret of life is to explore it in all aspects, detect the best of everything, combine it for the best and pass the lessons over to the future generations.
In this sence, Wellcome in the club.
And good luck with your projects.
Sven
And......back on topic crash bars on 65 pans
48 pan and a 41 flathead with buddy seat and rear crash bar
Chuck, you move that bumper a little over and protect sidecar and bike at the same time.
Should give the kids an eccellent hold on to point for sledge riding!
Now I can understand why the one ore other would take it off as it would hit into the saddle boxes.
My rear bumper is much tighter and thought for to have a hold on to point when you have to get out of the mud...
I had one occasion it took 6 hours for 5km 3mi snd came out on a rope behind a police officer's Trooper :O
Sven
Sven,
The photo with the two 65 panheads I was told belonged to two guys that were best friends and always rode together. Those were the last bikes each of them bought as they both got older they purchased new 65 motorcycles with sidecars. The first guy passed away and a few years later the current owner bought it several years later the second guy passed away and the guy bought the second rig sometime in the 70's. the current owner has had them since the 70's and brought them a couple years back offering to sell them for $24,000 each all original paint and accessories that each of the original owners had put on their bikes. Space was tight between the bike and sidecar with the saddle bags and crash bar but I saw no evidence of anything hitting or being touched up.
Now the last two pictures are rigid frame bikes but both have buddy seats and rear crash bars AND if you look the panhead has the sporty "Hollywood" handle bars but has the comfort of a top for his passenger.
The Flathead in the last picture is another original paint bike the rear hoops are more for period customizing looks........now a day I think it's called Bling?
Now the pic. below is my 72 FLH/65 HD sidecar rig in Illinois, heading home to New York from Joyce Canfields National Sidecar Rally in St' Joseph Mo. in 1998
I just can't convey how helpful these pics are. I'm excited about the sidecar all over again! I have more confidence in my recent decisions both about the hack and bike. Just so happens I got a new spare tire cover exactly like the one in the flathead pic and the accessories on the '65 are exactly as I have or want. I have a complete set of correct white rubbers ready to install all the way around and white windshield bag. Most are like I already have on my '63. One thing unresolved is the front lower fender trim cap. I can't see if either of the '65's had the chrome lower front fender "cap" with black highlight lines in the depressions. I have original '60, '63, '65 and '66 H-D accessory catalogs and can't find it listed. Meanwhile, Greg Fields's Panhead book shows them on all examples of '65's. I bought a repop and resorted to using 1/4" black pinstrip tape to fill in the depressions. I tried to paint them in using several methods and couldn't get the paint lines to look decent. Working from my Barco-lounger, it turned out great with the tape! I was wavering about a fender trim cap for the sidecar fender itself. I gotta have one now, especially after seeing the tail light is the same as mine. I even have an extra RH-55 (plastic)lens to install on the hack's taillight. I had a glass one and broke it by accident one day. That would have paid for a lot of stuff today. Got better pics of your '72/'65?? Gimme, gimme, gimmee! Now... just for guys... if Blondie sees that complete cover (overhead) canvas like the '48 rig, she'll want one, having the biggest hair in Arizona. There's no place to get one, correct??!! CORRECT!!??? Get it!? Uzzz guys are great! - AZP uhhhh.... looked up "sledge riding". I've never lived in snow country and just lived in snow while in the field in Korea and Japan including a winter Mt. Fuji trek. I have the stamped walking stick to prove it! How does a "sledge ride" involve a sidecar? Sledge riding? huh? You gotta take the car off, right?
Paul ride some hundred miles north with your rig and in any place you find kids with a sledge ask them if they would like to be towed. with spikes in the back wheel I could pull up to 12 kids on their sledges over the ice... smilles from ear to ear from everybody are garantied!
Paul,
Looking at the first pic. of the pans I do not see a lower trim piece on the fender, I would assume that the second rig in the trailer was the same.
Sven is referring to a toboggan sled to pull kids around in the snow. When I was a young lad growing up in Detroit Mi. we would stand around street corners ,when a car would stop at the sign or light we would get behind the car grab the bumper and wait for the car to go skiing on our boots.....I also ran with scissors when I was young.
